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Old 02-07-2012, 12:04 PM   #121
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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Break down the Philly shell and infighting from it for me! I can do it but explaining it is a bastard
Have a go, Jeff. You're MUCH more qualified. Would love to hear your thoughts.

Last edited by slip&counter; 02-07-2012 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:19 PM   #122
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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Have a go, Jeff. You're MUCH more qualified.
Want to hear someone elses break down
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:42 PM   #123
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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Big fan of the traditional old school defensive style, I'll expand on it later.
Still Waiting!!
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:49 PM   #124
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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Want to hear someone elses break down
I wanna hear YOUR breakdown. I might learn something.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:12 PM   #125
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Body punching is the single most under-utilised skill in boxing today.
It's the ultimate equaliser for fighters and here's why: it slows any fighter down, it does more long-term damage over the course of a fight, it's a god-send for lighter punchers and it sets up more offensive opportunities than any other individual punch style other than the jab.

I think it's been neglected for a couple of reasons. 1, it's leaves a fighter more open when on the attack, and 2, it isn't consistently rewarded in the amateur ranks. The second is valid, but the first is wrong when it's done right.

A good body puncher has two major targets - the solar-plexus and the ribcage. It is hard to get down the middle without getting clipped, but rib work is effective at all times. You can rip a left hook under the right cross, you can bring the right under a jab and both these shots discourage an opponent from throwing.

Also, it's ideal against defensive opponents since it forces them to bring the guard down. Perfect the hook to body then head combination and you have a major tool in your arsenal.

It's also ideal coming off a jab because that blinds the opponent and brings the hands up.
But it also requires good footwork to get on position, and since very few trainers impart that knowledge now, sweet body shots are becoming a thing of the past. Inside fighting relies on body work, but that's a dying art too.

I'll try and find some good clips and provide some comments.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:19 PM   #126
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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Originally Posted by dftaylor View Post
Body punching is the single most under-utilised skill in boxing today.
It's the ultimate equaliser for fighters and here's why: it slows any fighter down, it does more long-term damage over the course of a fight, it's a god-send for lighter punchers and it sets up more offensive opportunities than any other individual punch style other than the jab.

I think it's been neglected for a couple of reasons. 1, it's leaves a fighter more open when on the attack, and 2, it isn't consistently rewarded in the amateur ranks. The second is valid, but the first is wrong when it's done right.

A good body puncher has two major targets - the solar-plexus and the ribcage. It is hard to get down the middle without getting clipped, but rib work is effective at all times. You can rip a left hook under the right cross, you can bring the right under a jab and both these shots discourage an opponent from throwing.

Also, it's ideal against defensive opponents since it forces them to bring the guard down. Perfect the hook to body then head combination and you have a major tool in your arsenal.

It's also ideal coming off a jab because that blinds the opponent and brings the hands up.
But it also requires good footwork to get on position, and since very few trainers impart that knowledge now, sweet body shots are becoming a thing of the past. Inside fighting relies on body work, but that's a dying art too.

I'll try and find some good clips and provide some comments.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:49 PM   #127
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

A bit more on Robinson/Burley lads. Did a bit of Boxrecing. It's frowned upon but had to be done. lol

We've established that it was Cerdan, LaMotta and Zale who were middleweight champions in Burley's time and they're more to blame then Ray Robinson is for Burley not getting a shot. But what about as a welterweight when Ray was a welter.

That is also another myth. Burley was a full middleweight by 1941. Robinson turned pro at 134lbs in 1940. In 1942 Burley loses to Holman Williams by this time both men would've been sabotaged from getting a title shot. That Williams/Burley fight was for what was then called the coloured title and Burley lost it. Robinson himself didn't get a title shot untill he'd had about 76 fights in 1946. So that's Burley being a fully fledged middleweight for nigh-on 7 years before Robinson even won the welterweight title. Amazing is it not? I don't know why this myth is perpetuated.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:14 PM   #128
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I love Michael Spinks. The leverage he got on his shots, from the positions he threw them was just amazing. His short shots, thrown on the inside were so perfectly executed. I mean, if most other fighters threw punches from those positions, they would have no where near the velocity, technique or impact of a Michael Spinks shot from the same position. Technically amazing, whilst also so unorthodox and tricky, it's a blend that is almost completely unique to Spinks IMO. Very, very hard fighter to outfight, it's not ridiculous to think you'd either have to be a sublimely skilled fighter to beat him (Maybe Jones Jr, or Moore?). Or someone who could take heads off with his punches, like Iron Mike did
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:15 PM   #129
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEAY4VzRH6E[/ame]

Tyson was great at using body punches in combinations to set up openings. Especially the right-hook to the body followed by a right uppercut.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:16 PM   #130
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Tyson was great at using body punches in combinations to set up openings. Especially the right-hook to the body followed by a right uppercut.
De La Hoya also liked that combination, but didn't use it that often.

Tyson mastered it. Hit Ribalta I don't know how many times with it, not many could take it and remain standing.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:30 PM   #131
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De La Hoya also liked that combination, but didn't use it that often.

Tyson mastered it. Hit Ribalta I don't know how many times with it, not many could take it and remain standing.
I've seen lots of guys use it but Tyson was the master.

Tommy Morrison used it a lot against Mercer, with both hands & in combinations, sometimes following up with a hook.

Mercer's chin was ridiculously good

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NYjJchO1Lw[/ame]
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:36 PM   #132
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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I've seen lots of guys use it but Tyson was the master.

Tommy Morrison used it a lot against Mercer, with both hands & in combinations, sometimes following up with a hook.

Mercer's chin was ridiculously good

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Morrison's left hooks probably ended up hurting Tommy more than they did Mercer

What a chin the man had.
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:40 PM   #133
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

The one thing I draw on from all our criticism is that fighters just aren't well rounded enough. You get the few guys who can box and brawl, fire off good combos and go to the body etc but the Mayweathers, Lewis etc of this world are rare.

Boxers don't evolve enough. They don't work on their technique or skillset enough. Too many yes men around them, too much money, too much time off and too many fighters deterioating from who they once were as amateurs.
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:44 PM   #134
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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Originally Posted by slip&counter View Post
A bit more on Robinson/Burley lads. Did a bit of Boxrecing. It's frowned upon but had to be done. lol

We've established that it was Cerdan, LaMotta and Zale who were middleweight champions in Burley's time and they're more to blame then Ray Robinson is for Burley not getting a shot. But what about as a welterweight when Ray was a welter.

That is also another myth. Burley was a full middleweight by 1941. Robinson turned pro at 134lbs in 1940. In 1942 Burley loses to Holman Williams by this time both men would've been sabotaged from getting a title shot. That Williams/Burley fight was for what was then called the coloured title and Burley lost it. Robinson himself didn't get a title shot untill he'd had about 76 fights in 1946. So that's Burley being a fully fledged middleweight for nigh-on 7 years before Robinson even won the welterweight title. Amazing is it not? I don't know why this myth is perpetuated.
I don't know why everyone even cares about Burley, it's not like it was just him that got shafted.

Henry Armstrong wanted NOTHING to do with Cocoa Kid. Eddie Booker, Bert Lytell and Holman Williams, all on Burley's level, were all overlooked as well. It just wasn't all gold being part of Murderers Row
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:50 PM   #135
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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Originally Posted by slip&counter View Post
Breaking down the Desert Storm.

Bradley is a fighter with many strengths. He is one of the more rounded fighters today, even though he seems to lack a lot of physicality he is strong deceptively and has very little obvious weaknessess. He's technically and fundamentally sound. Good jab, precise accurate well thrown punches, although he does tend to go wide and loop them from time to time, especially when he's pressing the fight and gets a little reckless, which is not often and it's something he's improved in the last couple of years as he's grown as a a fighter.

Tim Bradley's biggest strength for me is his will. He reminds me of Evander Holyfield in the sense that he can and has the ability to fight alike man possessed even with physical disadvantages and overcome faster and stronger foes.

He has good variety and workrate. He can set traps playing the counter puncher, which imo is his primary game but he can also press the fight and take the lead. His footwork is really good and he can box really well in tight circles.

Bradley throws a nice jab to the solar plexus especially against taller opponents when he wants too. He bounces on his feet and takes a long step, bending his knees and getting full extention. He can also throw a very good up jab and disrupt his opponents rhythm so he has the jab almost down packed. He varies it and he can throw different types of it.

Perhaps Bradley best punch is the right hand counter over the top as a short or long punch, he's hurt or dropped few opponents with this punch. Very good at staying compact and hiding his back hand then releasing it accurately. What he does so well and the reason he catches so many people with this shot is, he jabs with his opponents and because the left side of his body is closer it allows him to hide the right hand and then as he's jabbing at the same time as his opponent he can measure and time the right hand, either when his opponent comes in or he can do it on the outside. he can also follow up with a left hook very well.

Something have also noticed in Timmy over the years and what i think makes him so effective is he doesn't lose form as the fight goes on. I look at him from the first round of his fights then i take a look at him in the last round and he doesn't lose one bit of posture and form from the first to the last. Which is so impressive because most fighters under featigue mentally and physically start to lose to lose form.

Weaknesses:

Not many but there are a couple. Although he has a good set up and can change distance well. He can't always avoid getting hit when closing distance as he can sometimes become ragged in his work when on the front foot. Crossing that danger zone can sometimes lead him into trouble particularly against fighters with advantages such as speed or height and reach. Although he uses his opponents lead to creat offensive opportunities like you should, he doesn't always slip effectively and avoid the incoming as he steps forward. The good thing is that he's very competant on the inside once he gets there. But he needs to be patient when he's storming and not reckless.

The other thing of course is that he's not the biggest of punchers. He's not featherfisted and can get his respect but it's not a lot of power behind his punches. There's also not a lot of reflexes and dymanism there which isn't a severe weakness because he has the solid foundations and well rounded game to make up for it.
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