Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > British Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-08-2012, 08:00 AM   #166
norfolkinchance
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 561
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

I have a few points to add to different areas of this.

Amateur points: I was training at Lynn ABC last year for a while which as a few can attest to here I am sure is one of the best amateur gyms in the country. Danny williams and wayne alexander being a couple of their alumini. it also has 4 or 5 kids floating around national, national squad level. very good coaching there. but it is from an amateur perspective. eg footwork drills which involve bouncing into ranging firing off a quick 1-2, out of range then in again to fire the 1-2 again. all staight shots. emphasis on speed and not power.

similar drills in sparring too. very good gym tho.

body shots: body shots are trhe way forward. I have dropped around 20 people over the years with bodyshots, all via a left hook to the liver so think I know a little about throwing them. not very modest but true.

firstly, no one in amateurs throws them so no one is used to taking them so straight away they are a lot more effective.
i find jabbing and throwing the body shot straight after is a lot harder as if you have thrown the jab form the correct range you then have to close the distance to really dig the hook in and to get the proper mechanics behind it takes that split second more as you return the jab to guard and then rotate anti clockwise, whilst closing the distance and then throwing it. against someone good they have moved.
so imo the way to do it is throw a 1 -2 or a 1 then overhand right but not fully committed. . this has several added benefits. allows you to close the distance. brings the opponents guard up and means you are in perfect position to rip a hook / uppercut up into the liver and cause some damage.
last point. poke yourself in the right hand side of your body with your thumb. doesnt need to be very hard but when it hurts a little and you can feel a small ache then you know you have found the sweet spot for where to land your liver shot. aim for there and you will get results.
norfolkinchance is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 02-08-2012, 08:05 AM   #167
Spearmint Rhino
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Check Hook Boxing
Posts: 2,207
vCash: 500
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

I'd love to train fighters.

Don't think I've got as much of an ''eye'' for it the way I have with rugby players though.

I could watch footage of any rugby player and with an A4 sheet of paper critique him mercilessly.

Handing off incorrectly
Carrying the ball in the wrong hand
Poor body positions
Weak tackling technique
Running that the defender incorrectly
Positional sense

and so on.
Spearmint Rhino is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 08:05 AM   #168
norfolkinchance
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 561
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

regarding mma taking over boxsing it is true. there are mma gyms springing up everywhere and they are very popular. at mixed gyms the mma classes are always more popular than the boxing ones.

the only plus point is most mma gyms want 50-100 quid a month to train unlimited classes. most amateur gyms still only charge a couple of quid a training session.

so the kids from deprived areas who make up a lot of our talented numbers will prob still box but mma will sell loads of t shirts and dvds to middle class lads who dabble with it but it will be more populkar.
norfolkinchance is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 08:08 AM   #169
norfolkinchance
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 561
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spearmint Rhino View Post
I'd love to train fighters.

Don't think I've got as much of an ''eye'' for it the way I have with rugby players though.

I could watch footage of any rugby player and with an A4 sheet of paper critique him mercilessly.

Handing off incorrectly
Carrying the ball in the wrong hand
Poor body positions
Weak tackling technique
Running that the defender incorrectly
Positional sense

and so on.
i would love to as well. in a couple of years i will get involved as unfortunately i think most boxing coaches arent much good and dont really think about the sport enough. sure some of you lot on here who have never boxed in your lifes could coach better than a lot of coaches out there.
norfolkinchance is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 08:15 AM   #170
sg85
Bang on the chan
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: A small town called none of your damn business
Posts: 1,024
vCash: 75
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Must be said, this is probably THE best thread i've read in the brit forum for a long long time.

It hasnt decended into a general-esque Pac vs Floyd endless stream of drivel.

As for the contributions, ****ing hell... you guys know your shit.

Props to the thread starter and the rest of you who've made this a brilliant informative thread. Certainly opened my eyes.

Well done, keep it coming.

sg85 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 08:34 AM   #171
pathmanc1986
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,433
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spearmint Rhino View Post
I'd love to train fighters.

Don't think I've got as much of an ''eye'' for it the way I have with rugby players though.

I could watch footage of any rugby player and with an A4 sheet of paper critique him mercilessly.

Handing off incorrectly
Carrying the ball in the wrong hand
Poor body positions
Weak tackling technique
Running that the defender incorrectly
Positional sense

and so on.


get yourself involved mate!

get a couple 6 / 7 yr olds and create the marquez bros of leeds
pathmanc1986 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 08:41 AM   #172
slip&counter
Gimme some X's and O's
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In that 3 feet of stew again...
Posts: 12,448
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolkinchance View Post
I have a few points to add to different areas of this.

Amateur points: I was training at Lynn ABC last year for a while which as a few can attest to here I am sure is one of the best amateur gyms in the country. Danny williams and wayne alexander being a couple of their alumini. it also has 4 or 5 kids floating around national, national squad level. very good coaching there. but it is from an amateur perspective. eg footwork drills which involve bouncing into ranging firing off a quick 1-2, out of range then in again to fire the 1-2 again. all staight shots. emphasis on speed and not power.

similar drills in sparring too. very good gym tho.

body shots: body shots are trhe way forward. I have dropped around 20 people over the years with bodyshots, all via a left hook to the liver so think I know a little about throwing them. not very modest but true.

firstly, no one in amateurs throws them so no one is used to taking them so straight away they are a lot more effective.
i find jabbing and throwing the body shot straight after is a lot harder as if you have thrown the jab form the correct range you then have to close the distance to really dig the hook in and to get the proper mechanics behind it takes that split second more as you return the jab to guard and then rotate anti clockwise, whilst closing the distance and then throwing it. against someone good they have moved.
so imo the way to do it is throw a 1 -2 or a 1 then overhand right but not fully committed. . this has several added benefits. allows you to close the distance. brings the opponents guard up and means you are in perfect position to rip a hook / uppercut up into the liver and cause some damage.
last point. poke yourself in the right hand side of your body with your thumb. doesnt need to be very hard but when it hurts a little and you can feel a small ache then you know you have found the sweet spot for where to land your liver shot. aim for there and you will get results.

I was waiting for you to comment, mate. Top post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sg85 View Post
Must be said, this is probably THE best thread i've read in the brit forum for a long long time.

It hasnt decended into a general-esque Pac vs Floyd endless stream of drivel.

As for the contributions, ****ing hell... you guys know your shit.

Props to the thread starter and the rest of you who've made this a brilliant informative thread. Certainly opened my eyes.

Well done, keep it coming.


slip&counter is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 09:38 AM   #173
brown bomber
2010 Poster of the Year
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,459
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slip&counter View Post
Btw Jeff. Have you ever thought of going into training fighters? I know a couple of lads on here are thinking of going into training and thinking of how to go about doing it. Would you have any advise? The poster Gooners is currently training one of his kids.
I've been training lads for about 18 months - maybe a bit more.

I have;

8-3
5-3
5-3
3-0
1-0
1-0
1-0
0-1

I've got another couple waiting for fights very soon too. I don't have my own gym so I'm reliant on them working at other gyms too. When I get older I'll have my own place but can't commit at the moment.

All proper fights in the ams. The lads who are 5-3 have both been unlucky in one of there bouts and one of them lost to the eventual national champion in the jnr ABA's.

Some decent prospects I think, but my prediction is my lad will end up the best of the lot. If he wants to do it... he's a natural.

My advice would be different for people dependent on their situation.

I took time out and spent time in gyms with Billy Nelson, Kevin Maree, Howard Rainey and a few others. Whenever I'm visiting somewhere I try and get to gyms to pick up what they have to say. I've worked the corner for a couple of Carl Framptons fights, one of kris hughes, the Simpson-Truscott fight, all of Kennys recent ones, plus a host of others. It was very intuitive and if you have the oppertunity i'd recommend doing that.

I talk to boxers about little things they do- you'd be amazed how many simply react with little thought behind what they are doing. But the best are cleverer then that.

Initially I wanted to become a personal trainer so I did a gym instructor level 2 which covers very basic gym movements and workout structure. Subsequently I did my personal trainer level 3. This alone covers things such as CV training in greater detail, periodisation, strength training, nutrition. Useful stuff which if you are clever enough can be adapted for boxing training.

When the opportunity arose to get more into coaching I made sure I did it properly. I firstly broke boxing fundamentals down as much as I could. Worked out the best ways to teach them and then did that, but your always learning better ways to explain things. You learn as much from beginners as you do experienced people. I look at what I think other trainers do wrong- I look at my own experiences and I try to be as objective as possible about things I do.

I look at how the best trainers teach things. I watch good and bad instructional videos. You'd be amazed how many different ways good trainers say exactly the same thing. If you'll look hard enough you will find consistancys in the styles of most good fighters. You'll work out why these particular things are sucessful. But like I said you should be experimenting and trialing as much as possible.

Being a trainer isn't just about what you know. Its about your personality, its about your students having trust that you have their best interests at heart. Its about making sensible choices at the right times, knowing when to say something and when to say nothing at all.

I feel any trainer at our stage, the beginning stage.. should know the following. The fundamentals of attack, the fundamentals of defence, the basics of exercise and adaption, basic anatomy, basic nutrition. Thats as a minimum. Your always learning and what worked for one won't work for everybody and for every exercise theory I come across- theres a counter theory..... trial and error.

I've seen some howlers and though its my new years resolution not to slag of other trainers, I don't mind saying that in my time I have seen trainers with no idea of the basics prescribing ridiculous exercise. People doing plyometric warm ups. A young lad told not to eat anything for 24 hours before a race, then to have a lucozade just before he gets in the pool. People doing static stretches from cold, 20 minute rounds of none stop punching. All prescribed because the 'trainer/s' has no idea what they are talking about. There's worse but I can't be bothered dwelling on negativity. And as it turns out time eventually catches up with their bullshit.

The other awful thing about coaching boxing is the bitterness and jealousy. I never had an enemy in the world before I started coaching but for the first time in my life had to deal with a couple of people bad mouthing me and telling lies purely down to their own insecurities. That for me was the hard part but these days I just try and get on with what i'm doing and not care about nay sayers.

The fact of the matter is this. I have a wealth of amateur and proffesional experience both coaching and fighting myself, I have an A Level eq in sport studies, I work as a personal trainer and I get results every single week. As long as I break down the fundamentals properly how can I fail to be a top notch trainer.

If you haven't got the time to commit to full time study enquire at a local amateur gym or pro gym, donate your time in return for your ABA or bbbc coaching badges and then go from there.

Be open minded and good luck.

Last edited by brown bomber; 02-08-2012 at 09:57 AM.
brown bomber is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 09:39 AM   #174
brown bomber
2010 Poster of the Year
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,459
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdsm View Post
Don't worry it's not the only good thing I noticed!

In the more recent footage you look so much better on the inside aswell, good relaxed inside work - rolling with the shots, slipping, parrying, creating openings and being awkward as ****. Not neglecting the body work either
I'm improving dudes, this will be my year.
brown bomber is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 09:40 AM   #175
brown bomber
2010 Poster of the Year
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,459
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg6XlKd6wiU&feature=fvsr[/ame]
brown bomber is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 09:55 AM   #176
brown bomber
2010 Poster of the Year
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,459
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolkinchance View Post
regarding mma taking over boxsing it is true. there are mma gyms springing up everywhere and they are very popular. at mixed gyms the mma classes are always more popular than the boxing ones.

the only plus point is most mma gyms want 50-100 quid a month to train unlimited classes. most amateur gyms still only charge a couple of quid a training session.

so the kids from deprived areas who make up a lot of our talented numbers will prob still box but mma will sell loads of t shirts and dvds to middle class lads who dabble with it but it will be more populkar.
I do MMA too, it is a great sport with feeders from all the martial arts, wrestling and judo clubs - plus boxers.

Its incredibly challenging and I think it will be a round forever- its no fad. However as a specticle boxing is miles more exciting. Boxing maybe in decline but I wouldn't blame MMA I think that computer games, and home entertainment is far more to blame. We could definately do with Antony Joshua doing well and being signed by ITV.
brown bomber is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 10:03 AM   #177
SkillspayBills
Mandanda Running E-Pen
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 10,864
vCash: 500
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slip&counter View Post
I don't know if it's right but i was always told to look at the chest area and upper body movements. Like you say and Donaire showed on that vid it's better to keep your eyes on everything and see what you can pick up. I've also seen coaches telling kids to look at specific areas like the feet and you'll see the kid dropping his head and looking down too much. Although the feet can give you hints undoubtedly. But a fighter should be watching EVERYTHING.

I think the reasoning behind looking at the chest is that's where a lot of muscle movements can be picked up before things happen. That's where the hint of whats happening as regards to the shoulders and head accurs and you're also keeping an eye on the hands which will normally be held near there.

It raises an interesting question though. Sometimes it's difficult to keep an eye on everything. But the objective should be to at least NEVER lose sight of the opponent. For me the thing that a fighter should be looking out for is those hints that fighters give off. Hints like when they're about to throw a punch which most fighters don't conceal that well. You see guys raising their shoulder before throwing a punch for example.
Yep spot on mate, I noticed with Quigg he will struggle with fighters with good reflexes. When i watched the Booth fight i ducked a few times . He telegraph's certain punches, Nonito made good point of looking at fighters habits and what they leave open when throwing shots.

That's why Khan's rapid starts at times mess him up when fights get dragged out. He doesn't have enough of a look to see what openings there are he just goes for it. Lovely attitude but at same time detrimental in a way.

I'd love to sit with a group of fighters and watch old fights with them then do a Q&A. A lot of fighters claim they watch old fights yet i don't see feints and i don't see fighters setting up work with a dip to body and shot to head.

If i was a boxer and not training for a fight i'd do weekly blocks of work if i was full time pro. Developing all aspects of my game.
SkillspayBills is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 10:04 AM   #178
SkillspayBills
Mandanda Running E-Pen
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 10,864
vCash: 500
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Working with Rainey must of been class Jeff?. Unique trainer.
SkillspayBills is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 10:11 AM   #179
brown bomber
2010 Poster of the Year
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,459
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkillspayBills View Post
Working with Rainey must of been class Jeff?. Unique trainer.
The guys brilliant. Mean that... amazing knowledge.
brown bomber is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 10:35 AM   #180
slip&counter
Gimme some X's and O's
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In that 3 feet of stew again...
Posts: 12,448
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Awesome. Thanks for the response, Jeff. I never knew you had so many lads under your wing. I look forward to you producing a fine champion as i'm sure with your vast knowledge you will. You've learned from some good guys and you seem to have done the neccesary courses and know the pitfalls. It's sad to see trainers be so jealous of eachother and having such an ego and not trying to learn from others. It certainly hurts the sport.

I would've loved to go into training but i think the time has passed me by. Starting now would be doing a massive disserve to myself and to anyone that would be unfortunate enough to get involved with me. It's funny because all the male members of my family are BIG boxing fans, but no one really went into and got involved in the sport in any serious capacity, apart from some extended family members. I was the closest to being a fighter but alas it never happened and it's probabily too late now to get into training. There would be too much work that needs to be done and you don't wanna end up trying to learn on the job and ruining someone. I've got a young son and i'll try and get him into the gym when he's old enough. I just hope i don't become one of those pushy fathers who wants to live his dream through his son and ends up doing serious damage.

Having your own gym and producing a champion would just be the ultimate.
slip&counter is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > British Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013