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Old 02-08-2012, 02:56 PM   #196
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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And at the end? Pure killer instinct from Leonard when he got the chance to take out Tommy, he did it mercilessly and with cold precision.
And still with room for a little showmanship.
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Old 02-08-2012, 03:02 PM   #197
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And still with room for a little showmanship.
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Old 02-08-2012, 04:04 PM   #198
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Cheers, Jeff. You've certainly got me geed up. I echo SPB's words. You're an inspiration.
Thanks pal, mean what I say and not just saying it to be a nice guy. You a nice humble guy but sometimes you've just got to go for it.... I promise you what you are writing is not 'normal' in terms of breakdown and analisis and that will serve you greatly going forward.

Make it happen- its down to you.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:21 PM   #199
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thank you slip & counter for your earlier comment.

inspired me to write some more.

someone earlier posted a video of james toney slipping ruiz jab and countering it. i willtry and breakdown that a little. imo it isnt possible to do this (at least not for me) if you are reaqcting to the jab or if it is a properly thrown jab. however if you can anticipate the jab or tempt the other guy into throwing it you can land it.

one way is moving backwards staying just out of range encouraging the other guy to lunge or overreach or encouraging the oppo onto you. ideally he expects you to move back and youhold your ground and throw the right hand. or the better way of doing it imo is to throw your jab whilst in range anticipating he will throw his jab straight after and then you throw the right hand.

the way to do it isnt to lean to the right which is what a lotof people do. instead just twist your shoulders clockwise and this should move your head the few inches needed to slip the jab. this also chambers the right hand nicely for extra power. if you can also slide your weight forward a few inches this will add power and range to your shot. another little tweaqk is to take a little step to the right of a few inches before or as you throw the jab as i find this gives you a better angle to throw the right.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:45 PM   #200
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Quality switch hitting
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZEUgchKUrk&feature=related[/ame]
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:55 PM   #201
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[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMLqQrGDQhw[/ame]

such a lot can be learned from this fight from a technical perpsective
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:00 PM   #202
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[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBaWjyoKFME&feature=related[/ame]

anpother great fight.both throwing great copunters, great defensively and lots of slick moves

what o love most of about this ios the movement they bopth show after they throw punches or after they have been hit. both showing off the full range of their skills as they were both pushing each other to the limit technically....
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:08 PM   #203
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Quality switch hitting
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Wonder how he'd do against Rigondeaux that was quality .Switch hitter against a southpaw
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:24 PM   #204
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:05 PM   #205
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I do love a check hook, it's amazing how effective it is, I prefer it when southpaw's do it. They can look so compact as they land and then slide away.
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Old 02-09-2012, 02:24 AM   #206
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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@Flea. So true.

One of the best technical and most scary punches i've seen thrown was the short right hand Ray landed on Graziano. It knocked Graziano's mouthpiece about 11 feet in the air and you can literally see him kicking and flicking his own leg to get the feeling back. That's what happens when the brain suffers trauma and oxygen doesn't flow properly to the extremities and there's a loss of sensation. Sorry for being so graphic those having breakie.

And that wasn't probably the best punch in his arsenal. That's probably his left hook. No wonder he killed a dude with it.
Same here! My fave shot of Robbo but not even his best punch!

There are two angles; on YouTube youget a shot from the left side, not as effective. In the doc' you see from behind and it's BRUTAL!

Jeff, cracking contributions in this thread mate
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:11 AM   #207
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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To echo what someone else posted - what a great thread. The attention whores and anti-Bunce crowd won't come near anything which will expose how little they know of the sport.

I've really enjoyed every single post on here - even the different perspectives on the same stuff are fascinating. I think it gets easy to get caught up in hype, but once you know what makes one fighter technically more capable of beating another, you see through it.

The first time I really took notice of technique was when someone showed me Leonard-Hearns I: two massively gifted boxers with brilliant fundamentals in a high-speed chess match for 14 rounds.

You see how Leonard tried to jab to the body and needed to adjust to Hearns' reach, you see how Hearns wasn't used to guys who could get to him in close, - then you see them switch their normal roles, but the footwork, the jabbing and punch selection... everything has a purpose. There is no wanton aggression - both men were looking for openings, using their feet and feints to create them, and using their brains to adapt to what they could find.

And at the end? Pure killer instinct from Leonard when he got the chance to take out Tommy, he did it mercilessly and with cold precision.

I was fortunate that someone pointed all of that out to me.



All things considered it's probabily the best fight i've ever seen, D. Had the all the ingredients.

Ray Leonard was my idol but you have to feel a little for Tommy Hearns in that fight everytime i watch it i get that feeling...He boxed incredibly well. Leonard was just ridiculously good and they both dug so deep technically, mentally and physically it was unreal. We see EVERYTHING in that fight. So many adjustments being made.

The problem for Tommy was that Leonard just had more lung capacity than him. That was the only difference between the two. It's why Hearns never beats Leanard in a 15 rounder. In the rematch even though Hearns had outgrown Leonard and outboxed him in large parts, he was still hanging on for dear life in the end and Leonard was getting to him. If that's a 15 round fight, Leonard gets to him again. It was just that lung capacity that did in for Tommy. Ray Leonard just had the ability to fight harder for much longer. Otherwise they're so evenly matched.

Ray Leonard's boxing IQ and genius is on display in that fight more than any other, next to the Benitez fight which is underrated. He realised that Hearns was incredibly difficult to outbox. In fact it's almost impossible to so, that's why you'll never see Hearns outboxed for extended periods in pretty much any fight in any stage of his career.

What Leonard realised was that even though Hearns was very hard to outbox he wasn't the same puncher in close that he was from a distance. He figured out that he needed to walk to Hearns and swim against the tide and punch with him up close where he would have the advantage and where he could dig body shots home. It really was something special that fight.
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:36 AM   #208
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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Originally Posted by norfolkinchance View Post
thank you slip & counter for your earlier comment.

inspired me to write some more.

someone earlier posted a video of james toney slipping ruiz jab and countering it. i willtry and breakdown that a little. imo it isnt possible to do this (at least not for me) if you are reaqcting to the jab or if it is a properly thrown jab. however if you can anticipate the jab or tempt the other guy into throwing it you can land it.

one way is moving backwards staying just out of range encouraging the other guy to lunge or overreach or encouraging the oppo onto you. ideally he expects you to move back and youhold your ground and throw the right hand. or the better way of doing it imo is to throw your jab whilst in range anticipating he will throw his jab straight after and then you throw the right hand.

the way to do it isnt to lean to the right which is what a lotof people do. instead just twist your shoulders clockwise and this should move your head the few inches needed to slip the jab. this also chambers the right hand nicely for extra power. if you can also slide your weight forward a few inches this will add power and range to your shot. another little tweaqk is to take a little step to the right of a few inches before or as you throw the jab as i find this gives you a better angle to throw the right.
The best counter punchers will get you throwing the punches THEY want, not waiting for you to throw it but doing things and baiting you to throw it. They create opportunities for themselves. What some fighters do is they make their opponents believe they are vulnerable and open to shots, they play a game of deception and bring things out of their opponents. It really is wonder to see and we don't see it that often these days.

The jab is the easiest punch to bait and anticipate as it's the punch thrown most often generally. It's all about anticipation as you say. Like just lowering your guard a little bit, knowing your opponent is ganna throw because you've given the impression that you're 'open', when in fact the joke is on your opponent and you roll with his punch making it just fall short and then come back with your counter.

Last edited by slip&counter; 02-09-2012 at 05:12 AM.
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:54 AM   #209
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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Originally Posted by brown bomber View Post
Thanks pal, mean what I say and not just saying it to be a nice guy. You a nice humble guy but sometimes you've just got to go for it.... I promise you what you are writing is not 'normal' in terms of breakdown and analisis and that will serve you greatly going forward.

Make it happen- its down to you.


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Originally Posted by almsn View Post
Quality switch hitting
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Nonito really is an awesome talent. To the point where we actaully see him practising things in actaul fights. What i like about him is that he has a good mix of athleticism and technical ability. I'm not generally a fan of switch hitting, i think it confuses the fighter who's doing it more than the other way round, i always think when i see a fighter switch hitting he's struggling to get his primary gameplan going and maybe running out of idea, but he's someone who can do it well and get away with it. He has the necessary tools and does it for the right reasons. Like i said to Mand, he's a chameleon in that ring.

The problem for Donaire now is he's trying to become a star, they're selling him on his knockout power. The mistake they're making is putting too much pressure on him to put on spectacular one punch knockouts since the Montiell fight created so much buzz. He's over egging it and doing things not in his favour. Just intend to win Nonito and let things flow naturally.

He's constantly looking for the one punch KO power and when he doesn't get it he leaves people dissppointed. Plus he's leaving himself open too much and getting hit more which makes the people think he's not what he's being made out to be. He's becoming too anxious and not breaking his opponents down and using proper set up and working for his knockout. He's not going to the body enough for example and neglecting certain other things aswell.

His hand problems are also a concern, he's putting too much into every punch. Along with his age aswell because he's already wasted some years. Not managed well for long periods.

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Originally Posted by almsn View Post
Wonder how he'd do against Rigondeaux that was quality .Switch hitter against a southpaw
That would be a great fight. I think Donaire would be on his game for that fight. Donaire needs to respect his opponent and have the element of 'fear' that he might lose to get the best out of himself. Not in fights where he's just looking for a highlight reel KO and anything else leaves him dissappointed. It would also raise Rigo's game. What a match-up it would be.
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Old 02-09-2012, 05:02 AM   #210
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If you think you can walk into a boxing ring without getting hit you are either named "pretty boy" or you are one of the girls that walks around with waving a big placard in between rounds. Lets face it being a round girl is out of the question and even Mayweather receives a lot of punches when he gets in the ring.

These are the facts, once you get in ring, face who you're going to fight and when the bell rings, you cannot escape getting hit. Even if you have the greatest defense in the whole world you are fooling yourself if you think you can get away without being hit.

You will get hit on the sides and all over your upper body, you will get hit in the face, that is how it is, you will be hit in every place that is visible to your opponent. If you are planning on becoming a good boxer you must prepare for getting ready to get hit by the incoming punches. It is hard at first, but more power to you if you learn the hard way, and you'll get it done.

There are three things to remember when the punches come rolling in, move as much as you can, keep your eyes fully open and don't flinch.

1) In baseball a study was carried out to prove that a 95mph fastball is faster then a blink of the eye. It is that fast! Traveling from the pitchers mound to the home plate ( the distance being 60 ft) a ball can go faster then a blink of an eye. The point being made is this - if a ball can travel that quickly with that distance, how fast will a boxers punch be from 2 feet? Several points can be argued, the thing is if you can't blink when hitting a baseball, you for sure can't close your eyes when you are about to get connected with a punch.

You shouldn't ever, at any time close your eyes and turn your back on your opponent. If you want to get away from the attack, open your eyes. Of course then you will see what is going on, which direction the punch is coming from and where its going to connect if it is indeed going to connect.

Make sure you keep your guard up. Never think that by closing your eyes your opponent will get tired of trying to hit you and give up. That is never going to happen. One point to remember is, you cannot fight back if you do not know what is going on.

2) In boxing there is one rule that is above all other rules. If you are not laying out punches you must keep moving, it's plain and simple. So if you want to avoid being a sitting duck throughout the fight, keep punching, move punch again. When you get hit, and it's for sure you will get hit, never stick out your head or the part of your body you got punched in the first place.

Keep moving! weave, punch, block, step, dance, do things that your opponent will not predict. If he throws out a jab don't whip back and then come straight towards him.

3)Don't ever flinch- You may want to do this when something is coming right at you, but you have to keep it under control. If you flinch you immediately become more vulnerable to your opponent. The best way to avoid this is to remember, things are going to keep coming at you and keep your defenses up.
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