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Old 03-04-2012, 04:26 PM   #811
slip&counter
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

What was Mike Tyson's better hand, left or the right? He was pretty even handed but i think one was slightly stronger than the other...
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:32 PM   #812
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

The right for me.

But it was just easier to whack people with the left hook and knock them out, though his right hand was more correct.

A bit like Wlad, his BEST punch is the left hook, but seen as it leaves him more open he just uses straight shots to win fights.
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Old 03-04-2012, 05:46 PM   #813
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

I agree. His left was pretty 'correct' too. But his right was slightly better. Looking at his fights i would say about 60% of the trouble on the opponents is started by his right hand. His right was more powerful because i think it was the one he loaded up on the most. The left was still pretty sick.
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Old 03-04-2012, 06:19 PM   #814
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Something you don't see often now is 'change ups'. Change ups are basically varying the look and speed of your punches. I think this is something a lot of young fighters struggle to do. They fight at the same pace all the time. We see this so often. There's also a lot of quantity over quality. Not enough efficientcy. Some fighters could improve their performances immeasurably if they just threw their punches at a different pace and rhythm and not make their punching patterns so predictable. I've seen some so called elite fighters throwing the same combinations at the same pace everytime it's ridiculous. Amir Khan is the prime example of this. I'm always shouting at the television for him to take something off your shots, surpise your opponent and act like you've been there before young man. This is one of the reason's one could make Peterson the favourite over Khan in the rematch. He's now used to his punching pattern even more. Constantly fast pace.

Does anyone remember Francisco Bojado? He threw great change ups. What a waste of talent.
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:45 AM   #815
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

James Toney's X's and O's.


Strengths.

- Toney's biggest strength was that he was a natural fighter. One of the most natural fighters i have EVER seen. He's as comfortable in the ring as the normal person is in the shower. This is the reason he has stamina and can fight with such pin-point accuracy late on in fights and hardly ever got tired even when he's obese. He's one of the best late round fighters ( He did it time and time again. Mike Nunn, Prince Charles Williams, Mike McCallum etc) in his era. He can stay so on point late on because of this natural ability to stay relaxed. Lights out was so natural he could do what he did just getting out of bed. All this ties in with his defence and ability to transition from defence to offence and vise-versa.

- Baiting and countering. Toney was a master at baiting. He understood that the easiest punches to counter are the ones you see coming so if you know how to force those punches then you're in for a field day. He forced his opponents to throw certain punches. This is why he loved fighting aggressive fighters who fought balls to the wall so much. Because the best way to beat those type of fighters is to bait and then counter them. As the aggressive fighter already likes punching a lot Toney didn't have to out punch him. He would just get him to throw the punches he wanted. His counter punching was effective because he controlled HOW his opponents missed. He would deflect rather than block.

- Body punching. Toney's body punching is actually underrated. His left hook to the body is one of the best i've seen. He made Evander Holyfield and Hasim Rahman lift their foot and wince in pain with that shot. He almost paralyzed Jirov with it in the 12th round of their fight.

- Confidence. James was so super confident to the extreme. Even VERY arrogant. It's sometimes a good trait to have in a fighter. It's interesting how the fighters with super confidence are also the most super relaxed in the ring. Everybody needs confidence and it's an important thing that fighters need more than anyone else. Toney was as confident of his abilities as anyone.

Weaknesses.

- Footwork. Toney only really had one glaring weakness in the ring and that was his footwork. He was slow and lazy on his feet and relied too much on his upperbody movement. That's why he didn't like movers. His foot placement wasn't the best and as a result he anchored his feet too much to the ground.

- Blinding himself. James fought wonderfully with great fluidity. But one weakness with his style was that he could blind himself when he dipped too far to his right. This coupled with his poor and slow anchored feet would mean if a fast opponent stepped around him to his blind side he wouldn't see anything. He also wouldn't get free of the position because his feet were not quick enough. This is precisely what Roy Jones did to him. Everytime James Toney dipped to roll with a punch, Roy Jones would step to his blindside and throw left hooks that Toney couldn't see.

- Gluttony, indiscipline and lack of focus. Because Toney was such a natural fighter he thought he didn't need to train like everyone else and look after his body. He would turn up to camps overweight. So in a sense his biggest gift, which was being a natural figher was also his biggest curse. That natural ability was a double edged sword. Like a brillient video game that is so enjoyable, challenging whilst at the same time easy to play and grasp. But erases the need to feel sympathy in people. Where the characters are just multiple and their distruction a matter of no consequence because hey, they're always available on reruns. That was James Toney's attitude.

Last edited by slip&counter; 03-05-2012 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:36 AM   #816
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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Last edited by DrMo; 03-05-2012 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:38 AM   #817
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Great stuff, Mo. It needed that.

Can you do one where Roy Jones steps around him to his blindside?
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:49 AM   #818
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Show me why the philly is effective on the inside
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:59 AM   #819
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slip&counter View Post
Great stuff, Mo. It needed that.

Can you do one where Roy Jones steps around him to his blindside?
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Any good?
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:02 PM   #820
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMo View Post
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:48 PM   #821
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Toney's feet were his biggest deficiency. I'd pick any of the great movers to bamboozle him, and I love James.

Slip, still ain't got a laptop that works. Sorry I can't contribute anything of any substance at the mo'.
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Old 03-05-2012, 03:43 PM   #822
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

No worries, Flea.
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Old 03-05-2012, 06:43 PM   #823
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

How could i show an example of a change up? Could you do that with a gif. I really wanna get that point across and how it could make a big difference in some fighters.

Could someone show Khan flurrying too much and overdoing his bursts. Which gives off the impression that his flurries are not really effective and it's not really doing much to keep him from getting walked down. He tries to punch in combination which is good in a way but he's ALWAYS doing it. And it's the same combos and number of them.

He constantly throws 5, 6, 7 running combos. When he should be changing it up and throwing 1, 2's and 2's and 3's once in a while. Throw 2 and 3 hard ones. Really sit on them and go to the body then change it up and run them fast ones off. I can't over-emphasize how much of a difference this would make. His speed would be more of an advantage than it currently is. I'm really shocked Freddie Roach or someone in his camp doesn't see this. I swear i could improve Khan training him myself, and i only say that half jokingly.

Try this fellas. Throw 6 or 7 shots straight as fast and hard as possible and then change it up and this time throw 2 or 3 shots also has fast and hard as possible. I guarentee you that the 2 or 3 punches will be a lot faster and harder then the 6 and 7. There's nothing wrong with throwing a 6, 7 piece combo but just not all the time.
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Old 03-06-2012, 02:36 AM   #824
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Been saying that about Khan forever. His biggest problem is his feet and how they stray out of position the more punches he throws in a combo. By the end of it his upper body is right up in his opponents grill and his legs are playing Twister, either right in front of him or right behind.

His hands are quicker than his feet, in short.
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Old 03-06-2012, 03:50 AM   #825
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

I think Khan believes and is right to an extent that the 6 or 7 punch flurries looks flashy and catches the judges eye. At the same time he's wasting far too much energy and not inflicting much damage on an opponent.
Khan lacks balance across the board, from the amount of punches he throws, to the position of his feet and his defence, he is prone to hooks and uppercuts because his hands are in the same all the time when he covers up leaving the same openings.
He can't gauge range very well either.
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