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Old 03-07-2012, 06:01 PM   #31
lufcrazy
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Default Re: If Ali didn't have his title stripped would FRAZIER ever of been champion?

I've just been thinking about this quite a lot so i'm pleased a thread about it is on the first page.

I think out of every hw in history, frazier is the anti-ali.

He has the perfect mix of speed, physique, aggression, power and workrate.

Frazier is the one hw I think has a stylistic advantage over ali. There are other heavyweights who can do things that joe can do but better, however none have his unique mix.

His head movement is the perfect counter to ali's jab. His aggression is the perfect counter to his footwork. His leaping left hook is the wild card that will take care of any clowning or showboating. His power is more than enough to hurt ali and his durability allows him to take what ali can throw at him.

I don't think ali can be knocked out. That for me rules out guys i'd previously picked to beat ali, most notably joe louis. I think frazier is the only man who could outpoint him prime for prime.

That being said, I do think frazier would still be champion from 68. Ali was at the height of his powers and the height of his confidence. Frazier's blunt force trauma would be a shock to the system.

I do think ali would lose a rematch in the near future. I personally don't think history would change to much.

As I say, frazier is the anti-ali. The one man i'd favour to beat the greatest prime for prime.
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Old 03-07-2012, 06:09 PM   #32
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Default Re: If Ali didn't have his title stripped would FRAZIER ever of been champion?

Frazier would have beat Ali regardless.
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:22 AM   #33
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Default Re: If Ali didn't have his title stripped would FRAZIER ever of been champion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
I've just been thinking about this quite a lot so i'm pleased a thread about it is on the first page.

I think out of every hw in history, frazier is the anti-ali.

He has the perfect mix of speed, physique, aggression, power and workrate.

Frazier is the one hw I think has a stylistic advantage over ali. There are other heavyweights who can do things that joe can do but better, however none have his unique mix.

His head movement is the perfect counter to ali's jab. His aggression is the perfect counter to his footwork. His leaping left hook is the wild card that will take care of any clowning or showboating. His power is more than enough to hurt ali and his durability allows him to take what ali can throw at him.

I don't think ali can be knocked out. That for me rules out guys i'd previously picked to beat ali, most notably joe louis. I think frazier is the only man who could outpoint him prime for prime.

That being said, I do think frazier would still be champion from 68. Ali was at the height of his powers and the height of his confidence. Frazier's blunt force trauma would be a shock to the system.

I do think ali would lose a rematch in the near future. I personally don't think history would change to much.

As I say, frazier is the anti-ali. The one man i'd favour to beat the greatest prime for prime.
LOL, no........68 Ali is far different than the one Frazier eventually met.

Ali did not do jack shit when he was banned., boxing was the last thing on his mind..........his timing and legs plus even his speed were never the same after the layoff.

LOL, so Tyson was better when he came out of the can ? Not the same but both wasted their prime, and both never ever looked the same after their long lay offs, can or freedom , it is all the same, you don't fight regularly you are ****ed.

No Ali exile no Joe Frazier champion. Fact. We all saw when Joe met a prime Hwt talent, not the usual gatekeepers ,in Foreman........blown out in uncompetitve fashion.

For the record, Frazier won O-N-E out of his 5 signature fights against Ali/Foreman, stopped three times............I don't know about you but that is about as shit as it gets.
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:54 AM   #34
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Default Re: If Ali didn't have his title stripped would FRAZIER ever of been champion?

I would say no, but I've seen their first fight. Too wide for Frazier. He'd have fought Ali eventually and he'd have defeated him. I'm assuming you mean if Frazier had met him at a time when he'd have come into his own, of course.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:05 AM   #35
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Default Re: If Ali didn't have his title stripped would FRAZIER ever of been champion?

Hard to say, Ali had that quality. But for a man of Ali's broad interests, a demon as driven as Frazier is a hard thing to ward off. Ali might very well have become distracted ever so slightly from boxing, and that would open the door for Joe.

Guesswork, really. Honestly, I think Ali would have managed to ward him off.
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Old 03-08-2012, 09:04 AM   #36
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Default Re: If Ali didn't have his title stripped would FRAZIER ever of been champion?

Prime Ali of the late 60's beats Frazier a lot more comfortably than he could ever do after the exile. After that who knows how things would've unfolded. Lets not forget also that in the FOC Frazier imo lost his prime in that fight. So what happens if he meets Ali earlier. If it's as vicious a fight with an Ali closer to his prime does he stay the same. Interesting question actually.
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Old 03-08-2012, 09:09 AM   #37
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Default Re: If Ali didn't have his title stripped would FRAZIER ever of been champion?

Frazier beat dat ass
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:37 AM   #38
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Default Re: If Ali didn't have his title stripped would FRAZIER ever of been champion?

i fancy frazier to take it, i fancy frazier always having too much in their first encounter at any point, he just had the style that gave ali problems, like norton, doesnt matter when
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:39 AM   #39
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Default Re: If Ali didn't have his title stripped would FRAZIER ever of been champion?

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Originally Posted by sauhund II View Post
LOL, no........68 Ali is far different than the one Frazier eventually met.

Ali did not do jack shit when he was banned., boxing was the last thing on his mind..........his timing and legs plus even his speed were never the same after the layoff.

LOL, so Tyson was better when he came out of the can ? Not the same but both wasted their prime, and both never ever looked the same after their long lay offs, can or freedom , it is all the same, you don't fight regularly you are ****ed.

No Ali exile no Joe Frazier champion. Fact. We all saw when Joe met a prime Hwt talent, not the usual gatekeepers ,in Foreman........blown out in uncompetitve fashion.

For the record, Frazier won O-N-E out of his 5 signature fights against Ali/Foreman, stopped three times............I don't know about you but that is about as shit as it gets.
This is the worst post i've ever seen on classic forum.

I feel bad just replying to it.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:45 AM   #40
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Default Re: If Ali didn't have his title stripped would FRAZIER ever of been champion?

I reckon Frazier would have had a good shot. The trilogy still transpires in this alternate timeline. I see Ali winning the first one by a sizeable decision; underestimates Joe for the second,and loses by a close verdict. A fired up Ali takes the third go.

All these fights would take place circa 1968-70.
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:02 PM   #41
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Default Re: If Ali didn't have his title stripped would FRAZIER ever of been champion?

Not only that Frazier would have become a champion , he would have gotten more respect 4 it (or would Ali's right wing nuthuggers make it less ?) due 2 beating a reigning Ali . Instead of fighting a rested Ali Frazier might had fought a possibly somewhat trimmer Ali but also somewhat more damaged so he may have actually beaten him easier under this scenario . Frazier was 2 yrs younger than Ali .
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Old 03-12-2012, 06:54 PM   #42
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Default Re: If Ali didn't have his title stripped would FRAZIER ever of been champion?

Frazier was ready in 68. A lot of people talk about the 60's Ali and the one we never saw during his exile. I think Ali might have a better chance at outpointing him if they had fought, circa 1968 - 1970. One thing is for sure. Ali never danced for an entire 15 round fight. He was quicker on his feet, but I believe Frazier would have caught him and done his routine damage to the body.
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Old 03-12-2012, 06:59 PM   #43
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Default Re: If Ali didn't have his title stripped would FRAZIER ever of been champion?

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if frazier might of lost the first fight the 2nd would be different frazier was so hard to beat it's unreal thats why it was so damn scary seeing foreman taking apart the smaller lighter weaker older shot frazier
Exactly the reason why many people at the time didn't think Foreman would last half of a 15 round fight with Frazier. Again, there's a big difference between the fighter who showed up to defend in Jamaica, and the fighter who was the champion during Ali's exile up to the FOTC.

Frazier never treated an opponent so lightly as he did Foreman. Too much partying and too little focus on George and more on his singing career. Only his toughness and fighting pride allowed him to keep getting up against George.
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