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Old 03-12-2012, 07:43 PM   #106
edward morbius
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Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
You stated that "most of Jeffries opponents were in the 180-200lbs class". Actually most of them were below 190lbs, and Jeffries only fought one man of 200lbs ,[before his come back,] Ruhlin , and he was 18lbs lighter than Jeffries.
If you wanted to take an average weight for Jeffries opponents , why would you exclude Choynski, and Fitz?
Why would you want to substitute Jeffries opponents with those of another ? What would be the point?
The point of my showing these averages for Jeffries was to show:
1. He never met a man his own size .
2.He never met a man he did not hold a weight advantage over.
3. Jeffries chin is untested against men of that size.
Your three points are factually correct, but it seems to me not all that persuasive.

"Jeffries chin is untested against men of that size"

But a chin is tested not by big men but by men who can punch. Did Carnera or Jose Santa test a chin to the same extent as Dempsey or Marciano?

"He never met a man his own size"

There were no good fighters his own size and there would not be for over a half a century (except possibly for an occasional Willard-and none were really top flight). In his own day Jeffries was matched with the top fighters, not with the biggest men. Which big man of the Jeffries era do you pick over him? The giants of his day were not even able to compete with Fitz and Choynski. Why do you presume they could compete with Jeffries?

"He held a weight advantage over all his opponents"

This just repeats the same point. Jeff was the biggest good fighter of his era, by far.

**All the arguments against Jeff boil down to arguing size is more important than quality. And all are wrong.

***Why exclude Fitz and Choynski?--Because 20 of his 23 fights were against men who seem to have weighed 180 or above, and Jeff did better against men of this size than Baer did.

Last edited by edward morbius; 03-12-2012 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:56 PM   #107
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Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

In all honesty, the size between Jeff and Baer is nondescript and means zippo... Both men were big size heavies for heavyweight boxing of the first 70 yrs of the twentieth century... And, well, even their power is similar to a great extent, but I'll give Baer the edge there... A match between Jeff and Baer will be won by physical conditioning and skill.... And since I have not seen enough good and clear film footage of Jimmy Jeff in action it is hard to really determine just how skilled he was or wasn't in his day, but I know "Mad Max" Baer was no slick or slippery ringer in his prime for sure, but rather a bully and a wrecking ball with a poor defense and a good chin...

Perhaps we should've turned "Jeffries-Baer" into a trilogy?

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