Is Technical Perfection More Important Than Speed/Power?

[Stonehands89]

Originally Posted by salty trunks

Yeah he says he was making fundamental errors. Why else would Roach want to work with him?? His whole style is based on speed not power. Your wrong about PAC too. Yes he admired his power but not as much as his quickness.

Have it your way.

Again, no one is dismissing the advantages that speed brings. What I am saying is that it is not more important than advanced technique. It is a great supplement, but it does not replace the craft.

So let me ask you again: Do you agree with that or not?

[Duodenum]

Originally Posted by Drew101

Hmm...

I'd go with technique in most cases.

Alberto Davila wasn't necessarily slow, but in most of his well known fights, he was physically over-matched by his opponents. Yet, he was still able to give good to great accounts against opponents who were faster/stronger/harder punchers simply because he had such sound technique. Really, the only fighters who were able to score definitive victories over him were Zarate and Gomez...And they were both capable technicians in their own right.

Prior to becoming champion, he was as successful a non-champion as any contender in the lighter weights. He had questioned power, and one boxing periodical said, "Will need a guardian angel to escort him to the title." What happened to Kiko Benes was a bizarre and tragic anomaly, but Davila did manage a successful defense the following year, and a very respectable career overall.

That being said, I remember watching Ali-Williams and thinking that Cleveland's punching technique that night was actually pretty good. If you watch that fight, and examine just the punches that Big Cat throws they're pretty compact and well thrown. But by and large, they miss Ali by miles because Ali was so freaking fast. So power and speed. while not essential, are certainly good attributes to have at any rate.

He had the fastest hands of any similarly sized HW Ali could have defended against at the time. Just about everybody says he shouldn't have been in the Astrodome challenging for the title, but that gunshot didn't seem to effect his hand speed. His jabs were pretty fast. (In Muhammad's brief 1970 comeback, the very quick fisted Jerry Quarry also barely touched him. In fact, I think he and Big Cat each landed about six punches.) Chuvalo and Terrell may well have been the only two heavyweights who could have taken him the distance at that stage. (Machen and a rematch with Doug Jones might have offered those possibilities, but of course Terrell had already beaten them in paper title bouts.)

[salty trunks]

Originally Posted by Stonehands89

Have it your way.

Again, no one is dismissing the advantages that speed brings. What I am saying is that it is not more important than advanced technique. It is a great supplement, but it does not replace the craft.

So let me ask you again: Do you agree with that or not?

I think Ive made my point pretty clear. We obviously dont agree. Advanced technique is not necessary when you have blinding speed. Technique can be applied to the base of blinding speed and it doesnt have to be perfect to be successful or even dominant for that matter.

Thats what trainers look for when a kid walks through the door because they know they can apply technique to that speed. Thats why Roach only needed one session with Pac, and Cus D'Amato only needed to see Tyson spar once and said "there's the next heavyweight champion." Having power and reach are all secondary to the root of speed.

Speed is the root that makes great fighters and really noone is technically perfect, noone, and speed allows fighters to make more mistakes that can't be exploited. Thats why you saw fighters like Jones Jr and Ali with their hands down or leading with dangerous open power shots, but were able to get away with it for so long. They were making blatant technical errors but their speed kept them out of harms way.

[Stonehands89]

Originally Posted by salty trunks

I think Ive made my point pretty clear. We obviously dont agree. Advanced technique is not necessary when you have blinding speed. Technique can be applied to the base of blinding speed and it doesnt have to be perfect to be successful or even dominant for that matter.

Thats what trainers look for when a kid walks through the door because they know they can apply technique to that speed. Thats why Roach only needed one session with Pac, and Cus D'Amato only needed to see Tyson spar once and said "there's the next heavyweight champion." Having power and reach are all secondary to the root of speed.

Speed is the root that makes great fighters and really noone is technically perfect, noone, and speed allows fighters to make more mistakes that can't be exploited. Thats why you saw fighters like Jones Jr and Ali with their hands down or leading with dangerous open power shots, but were able to get away with it for so long. They were making blatant technical errors but their speed kept them out of harms way.

I don't disagree so much with most of this. I totally disagree with any position that argues that speed is more important than craft, for reasons stated at length.

Thanks for the duel, salty. It's fun having positions tested.