James Toney vs. Ken Norton

[JohnThomas1]

Originally Posted by mcvey

I dont think Norton would be trying to keep Toney away in this one ,I see him as the agressor here,as Toney lacked a big punch at heavy Norton would be forcing the fight,the harder hitter and stronger man,he would have some problems with Toney,s marvellous defensive moves and would eat a lot of counters ,but his overall agression and punch rate would see him take a decision I feel.

That's exactly it, Norton doesn't have anything to fear here, but IMO again if anyone is in danger it's Toney. Norton's no inept, lazy tub of lard in there, Toney would face much more pressure than he ever has at heavyweight.

[Mendoza]

Originally Posted by mcvey

Im not actually a fan of Norton,s,I think his rep is a little inflated due to his trilogy with Ali,but I dont see Toney stopping him,and at heavy, Toney looked to rest quite a bit Norton ,in his prime could go a hard 15,thats why I see him taking a dec ,talent wise Toney is a class above him ,but weight wise Norton is at least a class ,maybe two above him prime for prime.Young made a lot of fighters look silly ,I saw him against John Gardner the British and European Champ,a flabby Young made Gardner look foolish,he might have done the same to Toney.

This is a silly thread. Toney was a never a big puncher at any weight. Small and in-active fighters at heavyweight are not good. Toney was a fleshy in-active ( didn't throw many punches ) fighter who hand picked easy opponents. Besides Toney was on RIODS as a heavy, so anything he did there is suspect at best.

Norton lost to elite level heavyweights. People like Ail, Holmes and Foreman. And to guy who can really hit like Shavers.

Toney? Ha, he got a lucky draw vs a Rhaman, a big gift decision vs Teiberi, lost to Thazdai, lost to Griffin twice.

Anyone want to mix and match the opponents here? Ali, and Holmes would make Toney's fleshy body at heavyweight bob and weave as they hit him. Foreman would crush Toney, and Shavers activity and power would be too much for Toney as well. Shavers was and Foreman are not fools like Peter. They hit hard to the body, and since James was about as mobile as a gas station attended as a heavyweight, he's meat vs big punchers who know what they are doing. And No, Toney could not do a rope-a dope vs Foreman.

I do not think Norton would lose to anyone Toney beat, with the possible exception of Roy Jones, and even then my money would be on Norton.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by Mendoza

This is a silly thread. Toney was a never a big puncher at any weight. Small and in-active fighters at heavyweight are not good. Toney was a fleshy in-active ( didn't throw many punches ) fighter who hand picked easy opponents. Besides Toney was on RIODS as a heavy, so anything he did there is suspect at best.

Norton lost to elite level heavyweights. People like Ail, Holmes and Foreman. And to guy who can really hit like Shavers.

Toney? Ha, he got a lucky draw vs a Rhaman, a big gift decision vs Teiberi, lost to Thazdai, lost to Griffin twice.

Anyone want to mix and match the opponents here? Ali, and Holmes would make Toney's fleshy body at heavyweight bob and weave as they hit him. Foreman would crush Toney, and Shavers activity and power would be too much for Toney as well. Shavers was and Foreman are not fools like Peter. They hit hard to the body, and since James was about as mobile as a gas station attended as a heavyweight, he's meat vs big punchers who know what they are doing. And No, Toney could not do a rope-a dope vs Foreman.

I do not think Norton would lose to anyone Toney beat, with the possible exception of Roy Jones, and even then my money would be on Norton.

I don,t quite see the connection between your post and my last one ,I agree with yours but can,t see why you quoted mine Mendoza.What am I missing?

[Mendoza]

Originally Posted by mcvey

I don,t quite see the connection between your post and my last one ,I agree with yours but can,t see why you quoted mine Mendoza.What am I missing?

You're not missing anything. I simply felt that non-Norton fans can be objective too, which is decided to quote you. Seyna thinks Norton is a journeyman.

[mr. magoo]

Originally Posted by Senya13

What achievements? He is officially 4-6-1 in fights against ranked opponents. 4 wins being over over-the-hill injured Ali, overweight over-the-hill Jerry Quarry, nobody with padded record Duane Bobick and a outrageous robbery of Jimmy Young. Achievements... Ha-ha-ha!

How was Ali over the hill? He would go on to getting his biggest win over George Foreman, and hold the title for four years with a number of title defenses. As for him being injured, it was Norton's doing that caused that. He broke Ali's jaw-something that no other fighter ever did, and certainly could not be done by James Toney. Bobick was a chinny fighter, but he was 38-0 and Norton dusted him on 1 round- the earliest he would ever be beaten in over 50 fights. The Young fight was close but probably not a robbery and Young was one of the best contenders out there. Quarry was past it but still competitve, of course you fail to acknowledge that Toney's best win at heavyweight was over a totally shot Holyfield. As for Norton's losses to ranked fighters, they were mainly against top rated contenders, all time great punchers, and the best boxers ever.

[Senya13]

If you can't see it from the film that 31-years old Ali was already over-the-hill, where he is taking a rest in half the rounds, only being able to dance on his toes in several rounds per fight (and when he does, he totally outboxes primitive Norton), take a look at several fights prior to this. Close fight with Joe Bugner, several tough rounds with Bob Foster (who was blasted out of there by almost every heavyweight he fought), several close rounds with far-over-the-hill Floyd Patterson. 5-to-1 underdog Norton, picked up for tune-up fight for Ali, got a smile of fortune, when Ali was injured like that, one chance out of a million or so they were saying, that that injury could happen like that.
Bobick was a nobody, he was matched up carefully (his meeting with Norton was a surprise for many, nobody expected him to be taking on such "serious" opponent any time soon) and so got a padded record and a win over him means as much as, say, Tyson's win over Peter McNeeley.
Quarry wasn't just past it, it was his last fight before retirement, he was about 10 pounds over his best weight and slower than he usually is (which means very slow), but, of course, still managed to stagger weak-chinned Norton several times during the first three rounds.
What's your own scorecard for Norton-Young?