Muhammad Ali vs. Duane Bobick (Signed, Sealed, But Not Delivered)

[frankenfrank]

Not sure if Bobick is d most criticized . Maskaev actually won a title from a very good heavyweight , his 2nd stoppage win over him in 2 tries , and while way past his own prime , and always gets mocked . Give him d Cleveland Williamses , Zora Folleys , and ex supermiddleweights and c how he rules , but instead he got d mix of Kirk Johnson , Corey Sanders , McCall , Tua , Rahman*2 (Oleg won both) , Derrick Jefferson (another win 4 Oleg) , Lance Whitaker , all super massive guys and some very big as well .

[Senor Pepe']

More on Muhammad Ali vs. Duane Bobick

After the ink had dried on the Ken Norton vs. Duane Bobick fight, and
Ali agreed to help the promotion on December 7, 1976.

Another turn, as on December 16, Muhammad Ali changed his mind once more, and
agreed to fight the winner of the Norton vs. Bobick fight, 4-months after
their bout.

This set forth a potential fight for June 1977. Though Duane Bobick had agreed earlier to
a $1,200,000 purse to fight Muhammad Ali, there was no guarantee that
Ken Norton would agree to that figure, if he was the winner over Bobick.

Norton had receieved $1,100,000 for his bout with Ali in September, and would most
likely demand a much higher fight purse this time.

[kenmore]

Originally Posted by Stevie G

Even though,by 1977,Ali was nowhere near the fighter that he'd been three years previously when he regained the title from George Foreman,I'd still take him to stop Bobick.

Certainly it's possible. I can imagine Ali connecting with rights all night long.

My guess is that there was a 70% chance of Bobick going the full route, and 30% chance of Ali turning up the steam and getting Duane out of there.

Again, we're talking the 1977 Ali.

[kenmore]

Originally Posted by Senor Pepe'

On the other hand, I'm sure you could see Duane Bobick stopping Alfredo Evangilista in 1977, while the Spaniard (via Uruguay) went the distance with Muhammad Ali.

But styles makes fights, and Bobick vs. Evangelista is an entirely different match-up than Ali vs. either of the two.

Evangelista fought Bobick's fight: minimal foot movement, heavy emphasis on trading punches, relatively easy to hit. Add to this that Evangelista didn't have overwhelming power, and it's easy to see that Bobick wins big.

Bobick was just that much stronger than Evangelista. Duane would win this one the same way he beat LeDoux in 1977.

[Senor Pepe']

I'd think the Ali vs. Bobick fight would have been very close to the
Ali vs. Mac Foster fight.

Bobick's best chances to win rounds, the early rounds that Ali gave away,
and the middle rounds {Rounds 5 thru 8}

The better skilled, but a power diminished Ali would steal a round or two, and
then outbox an arm-weary Bobick over the last 4 rounds.

[kenmore]

Originally Posted by Senor Pepe'

I'd think the Ali vs. Bobick fight would have been very close to the
Ali vs. Mac Foster fight.

Bobick's best chances to win rounds, the early rounds that Ali gave away,
and the middle rounds {Rounds 5 thru 8}

The better skilled, but a power diminished Ali would steal a round or two, and
then outbox an arm-weary Bobick over the last 4 rounds.

Incidentally, Bugner established himself as a legitimate contender by losing to Ali in their first fight 1973.

Going into that match, Bugner was still a youngish, developing 23 year old, and he hadn't fought anyone notable except a washed up Henry Cooper. Beyond this, Bugner had only beaten a few "B" level American heavyweights, and a whole bunch of American tomato cans and Euro bums. Because of his Euro title and big winning record, though, Bugner was close to holding a world rating, even though he hadn't proven himself by beating a contender.

Andy Smith, Bugner's manager, decided to round out Bugner's experience level by throwing him in with Ali. Smith knew Bugner would lose, but realized that if Bugner only proved competent enough to last the distance, then Bugner would have exceeded expectations. As result, despite being defeated, Bugner would be accepted by all as a legitimate top ten heavyweight.

Smith's gamble was successful. After losing to Ali in 1973, Bugner's legitimacy as a contender was never again questioned. The experience of scrapping with Ali even made Bugner a better fighter, something that was obvious later in 1973 when a suddenly mature Bugner did well in losing to Frazier.

Bobick would have been best served in 1977 by doing the same. Heck, given Ali's growing laziness and lack of focus, Bobick might even have gotten lucky and achieved what Leon Spinks did a little later: upset an aging, overconfident, and poorly prepared champion.

Ali-Bobick: what a missed opportunity for Duane.

[kenmore]

Originally Posted by Senor Pepe'

I'd think the Ali vs. Bobick fight would have been very close to the
Ali vs. Mac Foster fight.

Bobick's best chances to win rounds, the early rounds that Ali gave away,
and the middle rounds {Rounds 5 thru 8}

The better skilled, but a power diminished Ali would steal a round or two, and
then outbox an arm-weary Bobick over the last 4 rounds.

But don't you agree that Foster -- despite his obvious limitations -- was a far more dangerous puncher than Bobick? Ali outclassed the rigid, clumsy Foster, but had to respect Mac's power.

I don't think Ali would have been so worried about Duane's power, which was more of the clubbing, above-average variety, as opposed to being lethal one-shot KO calibre (like Mac's).

But still, I get your point. Ali would have worked consistently and honestly for a number of rounds, then taken a long break, then come returned to work again.

[Danmann]

Originally Posted by ETM

Why the most overated?

The overrated opinions on him. He got many decisions he did not deserve, was allowed to fight dirty, and his political leanings made him a star more than what he did in ring. Boxing writers wanted a champion who talked a lot, he gave it to them, plus the 1960 's anti-war movement made him big, as did his racial comments. In ring, he was not greatest. Tyson, Joe Louis, and a couple of others were better.

My point was though that he beats Bobick even on his worst day, as does about almost any champ in heavyweight history. The fight would have gotten lot of interest, and to be fair to Bobick, some lesser fighters like Richard Dunn and Coopmans got shots.

[frankenfrank]

Originally Posted by Danmann

The overrated opinions on him. He got many decisions he did not deserve, was allowed to fight dirty, and his political leanings made him a star more than what he did in ring. Boxing writers wanted a champion who talked a lot, he gave it to them, plus the 1960 's anti-war movement made him big, as did his racial comments. In ring, he was not greatest. Tyson, Joe Louis, and a couple of others were better.

My point was though that he beats Bobick even on his worst day, as does about almost any champ in heavyweight history. The fight would have gotten lot of interest, and to be fair to Bobick, some lesser fighters like Richard Dunn and Coopmans got shots.

I m not sure myself who was better between Louis or Ali and Ali stood only a little chance at beating Bobick (did a "young and fast" Ali beat a much smaller and weaker Doug Jones ? did he beat international clubfighter Henry Cooper ? no , only was saved by d bell and a long break , smelling salts and Cooper's own crappy skin) but besides of d remarks i colored in red i agree with this post . I even question d remark about "every other champion in history beats Bobick even on his worst day"

[Senor Pepe']

I think all will agree,

the Ali vs. Bobick fight would have been a Mega-Bucks Superfight, if it went on
in 1977.

Somebody in the Duane Bobick camp had to be convinced that taking on Ken Norton
was 'not a risk'.

What a $2,000,000 mistake. (Approximate fight purse for Bobick). Just what
were Eddie Futch and Joe Frazier thinking, all they had to do is wait it out a
little longer.

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by Senor Pepe'

Stevie,,,,,,,

Muhammad Ali wasn't going to stop anybody (that had decent stamina) after 1976.

Duane Bobick, 'the most criticized fighter in the history of boxing' would have been
just as 'fired up'.

One thing in Duane's favor, he didn't have to worry about a 'big right hand' hurting him.

I see your rationale,Pepe but I think Bobick would have been overawed.

[SolomonDeedes]

Originally Posted by frankenfrank

I m not sure myself who was better between Louis or Ali and Ali stood only a little chance at beating Bobick (did a "young and fast" Ali beat a much smaller and weaker Doug Jones ? did he beat international clubfighter Henry Cooper ? no , only was saved by d bell and a long break , smelling salts and Cooper's own crappy skin) but besides of d remarks i colored in red i agree with this post . I even question d remark about "every other champion in history beats Bobick even on his worst day"

See, this is why I became an Ali nuthugger. Not because I consider him an invincible fighter or a flawless human being, but because there is so much more nonsense written about him than any other boxer.

Did he beat Doug Jones? Um, yes. Jones was small for a heavyweight, but he was quick, aggressive, experienced, and stood at the pinnacle of his career, coming off good wins against Bob Foster and Zora Folley. And yet he lost a unanimous decision against the very green 21 year old Ali, and wishing it was otherwise doesn't make it true.

Did he beat Henry Cooper? Again... um, yes! The fact that he suffered a 4 second knockdown before stopping Cooper in the following round doesn't change that fact. The myth that the break was longer than it should have been has been conclusively disproved and is only kept alive by people who desperately, desperately want it to be true. Ali had zero difficulty regaining his feet and there's no reason to believe he'd have been knocked out if the bell hadn't rung - let's be honest, if the bell had gone after he was floored by Frazier, people would be claiming right now that it saved him that time as well.

Cooper was, incidentally, not a clubfighter, nor even an "international clubfighter", whatever that is. He had been ranked in the top 10 since his win over Folley five years earlier, and in that time his only loss was in the rematch with Folley. In the next fight after losing to Ali he became European champion.

[Senor Pepe']

Solomon,

Very good points,

But every fighter that ever walked into the ring always came up against someone who
had his number, or could give him trouble.

You don't have to be an 'Ali Nuthugger', just because all of the nonsense written.
It is nothing more than opinions by boxing fans, both 'Pro' and 'Con' for Muhammad Ali.

[SolomonDeedes]

Originally Posted by Senor Pepe'

Solomon,

Very good points,

But every fighter that ever walked into the ring always came up against someone who
had his number, or could give him trouble.

You don't have to be an 'Ali Nuthugger', just because all of the nonsense written.
It is nothing more than opinions by boxing fans, both 'Pro' and 'Con' for Muhammad Ali.

True, true. But these myths can't be allowed to go unchallenged or newcomers to boxing history will start to assume they must be true.

Anyway, in an attempt to avoid being responsible for taking your thread off topic, the thing that's striking about this whole story is that Ali clearly knew it was time to go but couldn't quite bring himself to take the final step. I wonder if it was the money or the glory that he couldn't bear to give up.

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by SolomonDeedes

True, true. But these myths can't be allowed to go unchallenged or newcomers to boxing history will start to assume they must be true.

Anyway, in an attempt to avoid being responsible for taking your thread off topic, the thing that's striking about this whole story is that Ali clearly knew it was time to go but couldn't quite bring himself to take the final step. I wonder if it was the money or the glory that he couldn't bear to give up.

Definitley the glory ! Ali had all the money he'd ever need by this time. The moth to the flame syndrome.