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Old 03-23-2012, 07:54 AM   #16
fists of fury
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Default Re: For Those Who Know Technique: The proper principles of the 1-2

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Originally Posted by ripcity View Post
Since everyone is an expert:
The 1 (Jab). There is some debate on rather or not twisting at the end gives more power. I'm of the opinion that it dose.
Why?
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:12 AM   #17
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Default Re: For Those Who Know Technique: The proper principles of the 1-2

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Why?
Think of the jab like a whip. It comes out loose with you moving into it and then cracks. That crack you hear at the end is concentrated force. That last twist of the wrist sharpens the force in the final stage of delivery. It can also cut your opponent better, say, if you catch that thin skin under eyebrows.

Otherwise, the jab is little more than a push.
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:35 AM   #18
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Default Re: For Those Who Know Technique: The proper principles of the 1-2

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For those who know technical boxing, after going over some of the points in Jack Dempsey's fighting manual, I've got some question I thought people here could answer:

Firstly, Dempsey mentioned regarding the 1-2 that the jab part of it should be open fist and should close at the last moment of connecting. Is this correct? Never really seen the punch described this way before, do guys really have to close their fist on contact or does it not matter either way?
Bruce Lee was very well read on these matters and he said that same thing. I bet he got that information from Dempsey's book. Watch the way he moves in his last few movies, watch his moves. He picked that up from Ali, who he would watch on TV in a mirror because he was a southpaw. Bruce was a mimic.

Anyway, you want to be loose. If you're all clenched up, you're tense, and if you're tense, you become like glass -easy to shatter. You're shots slow down too, and you do too once you get tired, which you will. Soon.

Loose punching doesn't mean sloppy punching. You rely less on using your arm like a baseball bat and more on physics. Foot placement, slightly bent at the knees, foot pivot, thrust forward, a snap of the hips, loose delivery, crack at the end of the punch. Those are good ideas to hit hard and fast.

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Originally Posted by bman100 View Post
Secondly, When you throw the 1 part of the 1-2, your right hand protects your jaw, no? Dempsey ( and Don Familton has also mentioned) a knife blade type hand postition that the right should have to catch the other guys fist. Thing is guys like Duran (who learnt from Ray Arcel mind you) they just keep their hands in the protective position to protect their jaw then launch a beautifully straight right hand. They do not do this thing of catching the opponent's hand in their rear hand, or am I not watching closely enough? Would it not be dangerous to move the right away from the jaw and not have it firmly protecting a vulnerable area in case the other guy comes up with a left hook?
Let's look into the mind of Freddie Brown (who was the man really behind Duran's mechanics). Duran was a sucker for the left hook. So, what does Brown do? He makes damn sure that Duran's right is locked on the side of his jaw like you see. Not only that, but he also knows that Duran, like most fighters, habitually drop that right when mixing it up. That's why every now and then you'll see Duran on film with his right glove looking like it's itching his jaw. It looks like a tic, but I'll bet that Brown told him that he wanted to see that glove itching his jaw. Sounds silly, but he gave Duran a habit that worked.

Now, shift over to Saturday night. There's Macklin with his right hand directly in front of his chin. Why? That's McGirt. McGirt knows that Martinez counters jabs by dipping to his right and then jamming in a straight left off of your jab. That placement can be a foil to that.

If you watch fighters from the golden era, you see that more often than the right glove on the side. Why? It usually made more sense.

What's the quickest way to get from point A to point B? A straight line. By having your right in front of your chin you can pick off a right cross easier and land your right quicker.

It ain't always so. If you're fighting Joe Frazier, you shift that right to the side and keep it there unless you'd like your head to be watching the fight from the 5th row.
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:52 AM   #19
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Default Re: For Those Who Know Technique: The proper principles of the 1-2

The hand actually travels faster when it's open, so closing it just before impact can be effective. I'd imagine that getting it wrong can lead to damaging your hands.

Yes, your right hand protects your jaw. Similar to when throwing a left hook; you follow through using your arm as a basic defense for your chin.
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:17 PM   #20
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Default Re: For Those Who Know Technique: The proper principles of the 1-2

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Originally Posted by Stonehands89 View Post
Bruce Lee was very well read on these matters and he said that same thing. I bet he got that information from Dempsey's book. Watch the way he moves in his last few movies, watch his moves. He picked that up from Ali, who he would watch on TV in a mirror because he was a southpaw. Bruce was a mimic.

Anyway, you want to be loose. If you're all clenched up, you're tense, and if you're tense, you become like glass -easy to shatter. You're shots slow down too, and you do too once you get tired, which you will. Soon.

Loose punching doesn't mean sloppy punching. You rely less on using your arm like a baseball bat and more on physics. Foot placement, slightly bent at the knees, foot pivot, thrust forward, a snap of the hips, loose delivery, crack at the end of the punch. Those are good ideas to hit hard and fast.


Let's look into the mind of Freddie Brown (who was the man really behind Duran's mechanics). Duran was a sucker for the left hook. So, what does Brown do? He makes damn sure that Duran's right is locked on the side of his jaw like you see. Not only that, but he also knows that Duran, like most fighters, habitually drop that right when mixing it up. That's why every now and then you'll see Duran on film with his right glove looking like it's itching his jaw. It looks like a tic, but I'll bet that Brown told him that he wanted to see that glove itching his jaw. Sounds silly, but he gave Duran a habit that worked.

Now, shift over to Saturday night. There's Macklin with his right hand directly in front of his chin. Why? That's McGirt. McGirt knows that Martinez counters jabs by dipping to his right and then jamming in a straight left off of your jab. That placement can be a foil to that.

If you watch fighters from the golden era, you see that more often than the right glove on the side. Why? It usually made more sense.

What's the quickest way to get from point A to point B? A straight line. By having your right in front of your chin you can pick off a right cross easier and land your right quicker.

It ain't always so. If you're fighting Joe Frazier, you shift that right to the side and keep it there unless you'd like your head to be watching the fight from the 5th row.
Thanks.

You're right about that. Bruce Lee did indeed mention in his notes that he learned from Jack Dempsey's book, namely that straight jolt Jack talks about in the early chapters.

So I'm getting that basically the most common way AND right way (most of the time, is to move the hand in front) but there are exceptions.

And that punching form should be loose because not only does it give more power at the end of it, but (our own John Garfield mentioned this) keeping tight fists when punching makes hands go numb very quickly.

When Demspey talks about mixing it up his own book, he says the arms should be proplled by the shoulders one after the other like as he puts it "handle bars of a bycicle." He also mentions to bring the punch back as the other fist goes back out. Guess now I see why he was adamant about that. ("...most fighters, habitually drop that right when mixing it up."

Dempsey seemed to have very interesting (some, original) ideas. The jolt, defence etc. also talks about shovel hooks, first time I heard that term. All great stuff though.
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