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Old 03-22-2012, 03:20 PM   #31
janwalshs
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs. Duane Bobick (Signed, Sealed, But Not Delivered)

I think Ali would have easily handled Bobick in 1977 and stopped him. Too many clean right hands, even from a faded Ali, would have been too much for Bobick.

Bobick, as was his wont, would have frozen in such a big fight. He would have been a sitting duck for any punch Ali threw. For his part, Ali would have taken the fight seriously and trained appropriately. No way would he let a "Great White Hope" threaten his title.

As hard as it is to believe now, Bobick was actually regarded as a solid prospect back then. He was a big strong guy who had a rep for strength, decent boxing skills and some punching power. Ali would have taken him a lot more seriously than he did the likes of Evangelista, Jean-Pierre Coopman or Leon Spinks. He was content to clown his way through those fights but would have wanted to be impressive for a fight the whole world would be watching.

Bobick would have been totally psyched out and done even worse than ****ey did against Holmes. Ali-Bobick would have been a total mismatch.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:33 PM   #32
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs. Duane Bobick (Signed, Sealed, But Not Delivered)

I believe it was,,,,,,,,,Money, Money and more Money

No doubt that Muhammad Ali was one of the phenomena of the century,
artistically as well as in presence.

But 'Money' and more of it , was what drove him in 1976, 1977 and 1978.

Here is what Muhammad Ali was talking about in March of 1976.

"The 1976 Road Show' by Mark Kram

Muhammad Ali;

I made $1,000,000 to fight Coopman in San Juan, Puerto Rico,
After that country's taxes I got $600,000. After expenses and my own income taxes
I'll get about $350,000. But then I have to pay my manager, plus the rest of my
contingent. I may walk away with $250,000.

With my lifestyle, that just isn't enough money. I can't go on forever, but I have to
raise some hell before I go. This road show has to go on.

I have a fight scheduled in April for $1,000,000 in Costa Rica against Jimmy Young.

After that, I go to Tokyo for a fight in May, where I'll get $6,000,000. I can't say who we are fighting
at the moment. Let's just say it is a secret opponent.

Then Ken Norton for $14,000,000. Yes, that is my number to fight Norton.
That fight will take place in Istanbul, Sudan or Kuwait. They say they're all
lined up.

We also have Shea Stadium in our plans, $12,000,000 for a fight on July 4th versus Norton.

But why should I give up $2,000,000 to fight Norton in the United States, when other countries
are interested and will pay more.

Mark Kram;

Muhammad Ali plans to fight every two months, for two reasons;
1) He needs the money
2) He wants to take his 'show' on the road, to as many people as possible

In early 1976, it sure sounded like 'MONEY' to most of us.

Last edited by Senor Pepe'; 03-22-2012 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:57 PM   #33
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs. Duane Bobick (Signed, Sealed, But Not Delivered)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolomonDeedes View Post
True, true. But these myths can't be allowed to go unchallenged or newcomers to boxing history will start to assume they must be true.

Anyway, in an attempt to avoid being responsible for taking your thread off topic, the thing that's striking about this whole story is that Ali clearly knew it was time to go but couldn't quite bring himself to take the final step. I wonder if it was the money or the glory that he couldn't bear to give up.
Newcomers to boxing history?? You have too high opinion of yourself. Ali had long break agianst Cooper, Dundee said so many times, was Dundee lying for---Cooper? Doug Jones was a club fighter, don't over hype him--and Madison Garden Crowd booed that decision heavily. Norton got robbed not once, but twice. 3rd fight was bigger robbery than second one.
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Old 03-22-2012, 06:11 PM   #34
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs. Duane Bobick (Signed, Sealed, But Not Delivered)

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Originally Posted by Danmann View Post
Newcomers to boxing history?? You have too high opinion of yourself. Ali had long break agianst Cooper, Dundee said so many times, was Dundee lying for---Cooper? Doug Jones was a club fighter, don't over hype him--and Madison Garden Crowd booed that decision heavily. Norton got robbed not once, but twice. 3rd fight was bigger robbery than second one.

You finding a way to score the second fight for Norton when he dropped the first six rounds shows your bias against Ali clear as day.

Jones was a contender. Look at the record, read the papers, etc.

Watch the footage. Doesn't matter what Dundee said, we have proof.

Class dismissed.
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:50 AM   #35
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs. Duane Bobick (Signed, Sealed, But Not Delivered)

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
You finding a way to score the second fight for Norton when he dropped the first six rounds shows your bias against Ali clear as day.

Jones was a contender. Look at the record, read the papers, etc.

Watch the footage. Doesn't matter what Dundee said, we have proof.

Class dismissed.

Dundee's comments are very important to consider. Norton's second Ali fight dew controversy from many people, including Ali supporters who covered boxing--were they biased?

Doug Jones was not a heavyweight contender, he was supposed to be an easy win/test for Ali.
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:52 AM   #36
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs. Duane Bobick (Signed, Sealed, But Not Delivered)

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
You finding a way to score the second fight for Norton when he dropped the first six rounds shows your bias against Ali clear as day.

Jones was a contender. Look at the record, read the papers, etc.

Watch the footage. Doesn't matter what Dundee said, we have proof.

Class dismissed.

Jones lost 4 of 6 going into Ali fight--a contender? You're an idiot.
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Old 03-23-2012, 04:12 AM   #37
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs. Duane Bobick (Signed, Sealed, But Not Delivered)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danmann View Post
Newcomers to boxing history?? You have too high opinion of yourself. Ali had long break agianst Cooper, Dundee said so many times, was Dundee lying for---Cooper? Doug Jones was a club fighter, don't over hype him--and Madison Garden Crowd booed that decision heavily. Norton got robbed not once, but twice. 3rd fight was bigger robbery than second one.
Doug Jones was a good fighter , not a clubfighter , whom was yet unstopped by d time he fought Ali . However Ali failed 2 beat him despite being much bigger .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danmann View Post
Dundee's comments are very important to consider. Norton's second Ali fight dew controversy from many people, including Ali supporters who covered boxing--were they biased?

Doug Jones was not a heavyweight contender, he was supposed to be an easy win/test for Ali.
Because of his (lack of) size , but he was a quality fighter , d best opponent up 2 that point 4d then 17-0 Ali .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danmann View Post
Jones lost 4 of 6 going into Ali fight--a contender? You're an idiot.
He lost 3 , even that on paper , and had a paper draw in Germany against a German fighter . 1 of them 3 out of 6 paper losses was a very close decision loss that Jones later (4 months later in that same year and still prior 2 his fight against Ali) avenged by KO in 1 of his next 2 wins .
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Old 03-23-2012, 04:34 AM   #38
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs. Duane Bobick (Signed, Sealed, But Not Delivered)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolomonDeedes View Post
See, this is why I became an Ali nuthugger. Not because I consider him an invincible fighter or a flawless human being, but because there is so much more nonsense written about him than any other boxer.

Did he beat Doug Jones? Um, yes. Jones was small for a heavyweight, but he was quick, aggressive, experienced, and stood at the pinnacle of his career, coming off good wins against Bob Foster and Zora Folley. And yet he lost a unanimous decision against the very green 21 year old Ali, and wishing it was otherwise doesn't make it true.

Did he beat Henry Cooper? Again... um, yes! The fact that he suffered a 4 second knockdown before stopping Cooper in the following round doesn't change that fact. The myth that the break was longer than it should have been has been conclusively disproved and is only kept alive by people who desperately, desperately want it to be true. Ali had zero difficulty regaining his feet and there's no reason to believe he'd have been knocked out if the bell hadn't rung - let's be honest, if the bell had gone after he was floored by Frazier, people would be claiming right now that it saved him that time as well.

Cooper was, incidentally, not a clubfighter, nor even an "international clubfighter", whatever that is. He had been ranked in the top 10 since his win over Folley five years earlier, and in that time his only loss was in the rematch with Folley. In the next fight after losing to Ali he became European champion.
When I watched that fight in d 1st time I didn't know who Ali was nor did I ever understand d hype about Ali after watching that fight . I think it was d 1st time I watched n Ali fight in its entirety or close 2 it and since then i know that every1 who praises Ali while dismissing or denying his performance in d Jones fight is either extremely ignorant (like most of d General Forum stooges and some of d clowns here) , extremely biased (I noticed that 4 some reasons Ali , Hopkins , Floyd Mayweather and 2 a lesser extent but still Mike Tyson and Roid Jones Jr. as well r idols 4 Afro American and Muslim Americans especially) while many others like Holyfield , Toney , Foreman , McCall , Byrd and Brewster r not ) , or , just have some personal interest in enhancing Ali's forged Legacy like Angelo Dundee (Bokaj until Dundee died) and his son (Stevie G) , Don King and probably a few Ali relatives , etc .
Ali did not beat Doug Jones and d only time that i scored their fight I tried 2 score it as much as i could in favor of Ali 2 know if that decision could b regarded legit and i had it a draw .
Ali got n enhanced break after Henry Cooper knocked him down in which he was received smelling salts illegally and d cause 2d break itself was illegal , it was Dundee whom made sure Ali's glove was either initially torn and then expanded d tear so he could have n excuse 2 give his fighter extra time 2 recover . I don't acknowledge winning due 2 cuts anyway .
Your post is full of mistakes , either deliberate or not and claiming that your motive is d care 4 d beginners' education doesn't take anything from this fact .
My recommendation both 4u and 4 d beginners is 2 read this thread :
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
and 2 keep any reservations against my arguments in that thread 2 keep it organized and not distract other threads .
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Old 03-23-2012, 09:11 AM   #39
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs. Duane Bobick (Signed, Sealed, But Not Delivered)

Bing,

Duane Bobick's leap from fighting 'B' level fighters, journeymen and shopworn foes to
a hard-hitter like Ken Norton, was a major challenge.

But nobody expected Bobick to get knocked-out in the First Round. Though Norton was
a hard-hitter, he was not a One-Punch KO artist.

If you look at the tape of the fight, Bobick could not block the over-hand right hands
to the temple. And, he did not go down from one-punch,,,,,,,,,,,
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:40 PM   #40
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs. Duane Bobick (Signed, Sealed, But Not Delivered)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
Bing,

Duane Bobick's leap from fighting 'B' level fighters, journeymen and shopworn foes to
a hard-hitter like Ken Norton, was a major challenge.

But nobody expected Bobick to get knocked-out in the First Round. Though Norton was
a hard-hitter, he was not a One-Punch KO artist.

If you look at the tape of the fight, Bobick could not block the over-hand right hands
to the temple. And, he did not go down from one-punch,,,,,,,,,,,
Very enjoyable and informative thread,Pepe
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:29 PM   #41
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs. Duane Bobick (Signed, Sealed, But Not Delivered)

Stevie G,

Thanks for the compliment,,,,,,,,,,much appreciated.

Hope all is well across the pond.

Just a short account of the Norton vs. Bobick fight.

That first overhand right bomb that Norton landed on Bobick would have floored
most heavyweights,,,,,,,and probably knocked out a few too.

To his credit, Bobick took 8 more of them before going down. Each one of them
was murderous. And he still got up at the count of '9'.

Bobick's problem, he did not know the 'Art of Defense'.
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:36 PM   #42
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs. Duane Bobick (Signed, Sealed, But Not Delivered)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
Stevie G,

Thanks for the compliment,,,,,,,,,,much appreciated.

Hope all is well across the pond.

Just a short account of the Norton vs. Bobick fight.

That first overhand right bomb that Norton landed on Bobick would have floored
most heavyweights,,,,,,,and probably knocked out a few too.

To his credit, Bobick took 8 more of them before going down. Each one of them
was murderous. And he still got up at the count of '9'.

Bobick's problem, he did not know the 'Art of Defense'.
I certainly agree about Bobick's defense. It seemed like he was never taught some of the fundamentals.
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Old 03-24-2012, 05:14 AM   #43
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs. Duane Bobick (Signed, Sealed, But Not Delivered)

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Originally Posted by SolomonDeedes View Post
The fact that he suffered a 4 second knockdown before stopping Cooper in the following round doesn't change that fact. The myth that the break was longer than it should have been has been conclusively disproved and is only kept alive by people who desperately, desperately want it to be true..
Who, like Ali and Angelo Dundee?
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:49 AM   #44
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs. Duane Bobick (Signed, Sealed, But Not Delivered)

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh View Post
Who, like Ali and Angelo Dundee?
Muhammad definitely had a good break in that fight with 'Enery. Many fighters have rode on the tails of good fortune at some time or other,though.
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:21 AM   #45
Senor Pepe'
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs. Duane Bobick (Signed, Sealed, But Not Delivered)

Not to get off subject,,,,,,,,,,

but Cassius Clay (before he changed his name to Muhammad Ali) may have been
one of the luckier pugilists in boxing.

Not to diminish his wonderful talent, but more of the 'Right Place at the Right Time'
could be added to his bio.
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