Sergio Martinez vs a selection of yesteryears MW's.

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by PetethePrince

Miles

How would you break down this italian american's style?

[PetethePrince]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

How would you break down this italian american's style?

I just don't see LaMotta as a reckless aggressive fighter, unless you're breaking down the one that fought at LHW as an amateur for that diamond belt. Yeah, that kid was raw and wild like a shark.

LaMotta mastered the crouch probably like no other. He slipped, and rolled with shots and fought on the inside very well. Not only that, but he a superb jab when utilized. The problem with LaMotta is not his ability to get inside, he can do that. It's fluidly mixing his aggressive attack with a defense. He pulls and rolls with shots so well that fluidly countering and being offensive in the midst of defense is difficult. It's a limitation of the crouch.

Fred might be more suited for Sergio because he maintains aggressiveness with defensive consciousness better. He has has a great physicality that can allow him to have greater success at a longer range. If the fight gets in a middle range, Freddie would be more successful than Jake. On the inside, I think Jake would be superior, particular with his body attack. However, I think Jake probably put on constant pressure better than any other MW I can think of. It says a lot about his skills and ability with his style considering he's not a top level puncher.

I have no qualms with thinking Apostoli style and physicality are more suited for Martinez than LaMotta. Just that Jake was a recklessly aggressive like Margarito is absurd. LaMotta chin seems to unfortunately overshadow his great defensive ability, not just on the inside but at all ranges. He talked in an interview where a young Tyson was on and compared his ability to pull from punches and take steam of shots like bringing a catcher's mitt backwards to take steam off catching a fly ball.

"I didn't get nearly as hit as you guys thought I did."

Jake LaMotta

Why do you think the old bastards still kicking it at 90 with his faculties intact? Good genetics... maybe.

[lora]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

Dzin is apparently fighting trout next so that'll give an indication to how much he has left.

I thought it was a very good win at the time and a masterful performance.

Definitely Martinez at his best, but Sergey had declined significantly and been very inactive since his 2004-2006'ish peak.

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by PetethePrince

I just don't see LaMotta as a reckless aggressive fighter, unless you're breaking down the one that fought at LHW as an amateur for that diamond belt. Yeah, that kid was raw and wild like a shark.

LaMotta mastered the crouch probably like no other. He slipped, and rolled with shots and fought on the inside very well. Not only that, but he a superb jab when utilized. The problem with LaMotta is not his ability to get inside, he can do that. It's fluidly mixing his aggressive attack with a defense. He pulls and rolls with shots so well that fluidly countering and being offensive in the midst of defense is difficult. It's a limitation of the crouch.

Fred might be more suited for Sergio because he maintains aggressiveness with defensive consciousness better. He has has a great physicality that can allow him to have greater success at a longer range. If the fight gets in a middle range, Freddie would be more successful than Jake. On the inside, I think Jake would be superior, particular with his body attack. However, I think Jake probably put on constant pressure better than any other MW I can think of. It says a lot about his skills and ability with his style considering he's not a top level puncher.

I have no qualms with thinking Apostoli style and physicality are more suited for Martinez than LaMotta. Just that Jake was a recklessly aggressive like Margarito is absurd. LaMotta chin seems to unfortunately overshadow his great defensive ability, not just on the inside but at all ranges. He talked in an interview where a young Tyson was on and compared his ability to pull from punches and take steam of shots like bringing a catcher's mitt backwards to take steam off catching a fly ball.

"I didn't get nearly as hit as you guys thought I did."

Jake LaMotta

Why do you think the old bastards still kicking it at 90 with his faculties intact? Good genetics... maybe.

very impressive. An A. Would have been an A+ had you provided footage to back up your post.

I really can't picture him slipping martinez's lead left.

[Nightcrawler]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

very impressive. An A. Would have been an A+ had you provided footage to back up your post.

I really can't picture him slipping martinez's lead left.

can you quit being a teacher for five minutes

[red cobra]

Originally Posted by PetethePrince

I just don't see LaMotta as a reckless aggressive fighter, unless you're breaking down the one that fought at LHW as an amateur for that diamond belt. Yeah, that kid was raw and wild like a shark.

LaMotta mastered the crouch probably like no other. He slipped, and rolled with shots and fought on the inside very well. Not only that, but he a superb jab when utilized. The problem with LaMotta is not his ability to get inside, he can do that. It's fluidly mixing his aggressive attack with a defense. He pulls and rolls with shots so well that fluidly countering and being offensive in the midst of defense is difficult. It's a limitation of the crouch.

Fred might be more suited for Sergio because he maintains aggressiveness with defensive consciousness better. He has has a great physicality that can allow him to have greater success at a longer range. If the fight gets in a middle range, Freddie would be more successful than Jake. On the inside, I think Jake would be superior, particular with his body attack. However, I think Jake probably put on constant pressure better than any other MW I can think of. It says a lot about his skills and ability with his style considering he's not a top level puncher.

I have no qualms with thinking Apostoli style and physicality are more suited for Martinez than LaMotta. Just that Jake was a recklessly aggressive like Margarito is absurd. LaMotta chin seems to unfortunately overshadow his great defensive ability, not just on the inside but at all ranges. He talked in an interview where a young Tyson was on and compared his ability to pull from punches and take steam of shots like bringing a catcher's mitt backwards to take steam off catching a fly ball.

"I didn't get nearly as hit as you guys thought I did."

Jake LaMotta

Why do you think the old bastards still kicking it at 90 with his faculties intact? Good genetics... maybe.

Absolutely..LaMotta wasn't that out of control sadomasochist asshole that the ESB deity Deniro portrayed in Raging Bull..he had some skills after all..hell, he's 3x as lucid as most retired pugs today that were "slick" and prided themselves on not getting hit...

[Nightcrawler]

Originally Posted by red cobra

Absolutely..LaMotta wasn't that out of control sadomasochist asshole that the ESB deity Deniro portrayed in Raging Bull..he had some skills after all..hell, he's 3x as lucid as most retired pugs today that were "slick" and prided themselves on not getting hit...

lamotta was from the footage i've seen, a real cutie. just not the fastest of foot and wasn't the best puncher. but he had some nice defense, was very clever and as someone said (luf?) put his punches together very nicely

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by Nightcrawler

can you quit being a teacher for five minutes

Not a chance I liked his post and graded it accordingly

[Nightcrawler]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

Not a chance I liked his post and graded it accordingly

well people like you are about my least favourite on the planet right now cause i'm about to put a bullet in my head thanks to my stats course

[PetethePrince]

I'll take the A. Maybe I'll provide some footage later. What's interesting is, we don't even have footage of a prime LaMotta. That's the biggest problem, so maybe he did maintain aggressiveness more fluidly with defense when he was younger. I still think there's a limit with the crouch. However, even in his older days when at his LHW campaign where his activity and punches and youthfulness weren't quit there you could still see the great defensive skills he possessed with the crouch he fought under. These LHW fights were near the end of his career against Bob Murphy and Norman Hayes if I remember correctly.

At LHW, LaMotta was too small and old for the division so his fights displayed his defensive skill often times on the back-foot, and not aggressively like his nickname "Raging Bull."

Poster Raging Bull would be far better at pulling up footage of LaMotta as he's a big fan.

Around 6:40 this is a good indication of LaMotta blocking shots, and then dipping and pulling while still being aggressive.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FiNykNJbEI[/ame]


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIPufgr4HUw&feature=related[/ame]


Around 7:30 to 7:50. Hairston lands body shots, but Jake's slipping a lot of the shots. Check out 8:50 for a glimpse of a past prime LaMotta slipping shots on the inside and then countering Hairston.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2hWcGXWzzM[/ame]


4:46 another great example of his defensive capabilities.

[PetethePrince]

Originally Posted by red cobra

Absolutely..LaMotta wasn't that out of control sadomasochist asshole that the ESB deity Deniro portrayed in Raging Bull..he had some skills after all..hell, he's 3x as lucid as most retired pugs today that were "slick" and prided themselves on not getting hit...

Agreed. When I watch him I tend to think his footwork might be underrated. Man, not the best puncher but he could definitely get himself in position to punch. Offensively while being the aggressor, or whether he's off the back-foot and countering. A lot of fighters could learn a thing or two about getting their feet in position. It's probably the most important aspect of boxing.

[PetethePrince]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

very impressive. An A. Would have been an A+ had you provided footage to back up your post.

I really can't picture him slipping martinez's lead left.

Well the crouch is the best thing to nullify a southpaw's left hand. When Marquez learned to dip after getting dropped 3 times against Pac in their first fight he tended to have a lot more success countering and not getting overwhelmed by Pac's assault and left hand.

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by Nightcrawler

well people like you are about my least favourite on the planet right now cause i'm about to put a bullet in my head thanks to my stats course

Stats is my speciality. Where lies the problem?