Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


View Poll Results: Who wins?
Fitz wins based on finishing skills 11 61.11%
Carnera is just too big 7 38.89%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-01-2012, 11:35 AM   #31
he grant
Historian/Film Maker
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,664
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons vs Primo Carnera

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend X View Post
Carnera was a bit better than you think. At the time he was actually credited with having shown considerable improvement from the time of his first US barnstorming tour to the time of being champion. He was one of the better fighters of the era.

Sure, he was fed set ups and second raters. He's not the only champion to have had that build up.
Sure, he was a weak puncher, but he could wear guys down with sheer strength and volume.
And I'll even add that he had a weak chin.

But he was praised for his bravery and gameness and some decent agility and boxing ability for a man of his size.

The top men would beat him, but he legitimately overwhelmed his fair share of solid second-tier fighters. It's an exaggeration to say he was barely top ten in his era.
I think pretty much everything we are both saying is correct and one does not contradict the other ... as I first wrote on this thread the ref is key in this fight ... if he allows hugging and holding of course the much larger, heavier and stronger man has an advantage and it becomes a completely different fight ... however if they are forced to fight I see Fitz chopping up Carnera much like Louis and even Baer did ... I cannot imagine him taking that sort of punishment for too long ...
he grant is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 04-01-2012, 11:40 AM   #32
Senor Pepe'
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,704
vCash: 500
Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons vs Primo Carnera

If light-punching Tommy Loughran could go 15-rounds with Big Primo, then
Ruby Bob would have little problem.

The difference, Ruby Bob would be offensive-minded.

The only mistake for Ruby Bob, would be walking into a 'lucky punch' from Primo
in the late rounds.
Senor Pepe' is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 12:53 PM   #33
edward morbius
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,139
vCash: 500
Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons vs Primo Carnera

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
If light-punching Tommy Loughran could go 15-rounds with Big Primo, then
Ruby Bob would have little problem.

The difference, Ruby Bob would be offensive-minded.

The only mistake for Ruby Bob, would be walking into a 'lucky punch' from Primo
in the late rounds.
"The only mistake for Ruby Bob, would be walking into a "lucky punch" from Primo in the late rounds."

I don't think there would be any late rounds.

People who saw Fitz were awed by his punching power, and certainly his record backs up their impression.

A bit of evidence

Ted Carroll in The Ring, June 1955

"The old boy must have been a mighty walloper, since Jack Johnson years later always insisted that the freckled Englishman hit him harder than anybody ever did. Fitz was ancient when Johnson got around to him but to hear Jack tell it he still packed a wallop."

Hype Igoe, who went way back, in 1941 listed Fitzsimmons above Dempsey and Louis as a puncher.

One might argue these men aren't correct, but they had first-hand knowledge and we at least must admit that Fitz had to have been a sensational puncher for his size.

Carnera's destructions by Baer and Louis and Haynes do not bode well for him against Fitz. The big hitters of his own day got him. And he was not able to stop the fast movers himself, such as Loughran or Gains.

Carnera's win over Sharkey was legit, I think, but Sharkey never won a major fight after that and had never been known as a heavy hitter.
edward morbius is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 01:05 PM   #34
edward morbius
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,139
vCash: 500
Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons vs Primo Carnera

"demi-god build"

Interesting criterium for boxing greatness.

How did Steve Reeves do in the ring? What about Arnold?

Arnold did prove that a demi-god build is not a top criteria for a Governor.

Last edited by edward morbius; 04-01-2012 at 04:42 PM.
edward morbius is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 03:33 PM   #35
Legend X
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 2,378
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons vs Primo Carnera

Quote:
Originally Posted by he grant View Post
I think pretty much everything we are both saying is correct and one does not contradict the other ... as I first wrote on this thread the ref is key in this fight ... if he allows hugging and holding of course the much larger, heavier and stronger man has an advantage and it becomes a completely different fight ... however if they are forced to fight I see Fitz chopping up Carnera much like Louis and even Baer did ... I cannot imagine him taking that sort of punishment for too long ...
The only real disagreement I have is that he was barely good enough to be top ten even in his own 'weak' era. I think he was better than that. He seems to have been consistently and solidly top ten, and usually among the top 4 or 5, during 1930 - '35.
In fact, RING magazine ranked him no lower than #4 contender in the end of year rankings for those six years.

I have no doubts that Fitz was great, but haven't seen enough of him in action to back him to do what Louis or Baer did.
Legend X is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 03:41 PM   #36
Legend X
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 2,378
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons vs Primo Carnera

Quote:
Originally Posted by edward morbius View Post
"demi-god build"

Interesting criterium for boxing greatness.
I certainly wasn't suggesting it had anything to do with boxing ability or greatness, whatsoever.

I do think it proves that the weight on the scales reflects natural athletic size. Rather than the number a fat man might bring to the scales.
Simply put, Carnera was a fit 265 pounds.
That other guy Dunkhorst was 250 or 300 pounds by virtue of being fat.



Quote:
How did Steve Reeves do in the ring? What about Arnold?

Arnold did prove that a demi-god build is not the top criteria for a Governor.

Reeves did manage to beat an over-the-hill Carnera ...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OF3PLk_Wc4[/ame]
Legend X is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 05:33 AM   #37
Mendoza
Dominating a decade
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,286
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons vs Primo Carnera

Quote:
Originally Posted by edward morbius View Post
"The only mistake for Ruby Bob, would be walking into a "lucky punch" from Primo in the late rounds."

I don't think there would be any late rounds.

People who saw Fitz were awed by his punching power, and certainly his record backs up their impression.

A bit of evidence

Ted Carroll in The Ring, June 1955

"The old boy must have been a mighty walloper, since Jack Johnson years later always insisted that the freckled Englishman hit him harder than anybody ever did. Fitz was ancient when Johnson got around to him but to hear Jack tell it he still packed a wallop."

Hype Igoe, who went way back, in 1941 listed Fitzsimmons above Dempsey and Louis as a puncher.

One might argue these men aren't correct, but they had first-hand knowledge and we at least must admit that Fitz had to have been a sensational puncher for his size.

Carnera's destructions by Baer and Louis and Haynes do not bode well for him against Fitz. The big hitters of his own day got him. And he was not able to stop the fast movers himself, such as Loughran or Gains.

Carnera's win over Sharkey was legit, I think, but Sharkey never won a major fight after that and had never been known as a heavy hitter.
Fitz's power is underrated. Historian Nat F said Fitz was the best KO puncher of all time. Over Louis, Marciano and Dempsey. Even if Nat was off by a bit, to say this puts Fit'z power in perspective.

Not only did Fitz have power, and speed, he knew where to hit and did so with accuracy.
Mendoza is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013