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Old 04-02-2012, 06:20 PM   #196
mcvey
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries v George Foreman

[quote=janitor;12472354][quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadcapMaxie View Post

The quality of the footage is hardly up to showing the strengths and weaknesses of these fighters.

Also, they were both unorthodox fighters by the standards of their era, like Ali or Jones more recently.

If you look at a boxing manual from that era, and compare it to one today, it is virtualy indistinguishable. The only difference worth noting is the guard position. The 1900 manual recomends a lower guard, to intercept body shots.



Jeffries weighed 220lbs in his prime.

Whats in it?



If you watch the entire fight, you will see that Johnson only forced the older Jeffries round later in the fight after Jeffries tired.

Johnson himself, was also one of the strongest heavyweight champions of all time.



Are you sure about that?



There are still a lot of accounts from Jeffries era that point to him being a dynamite puncher.

While I think that Foreman hit harder, I urge you to keep anopen mind.



Before his ill fated comeback Jeffries had never been off his feet in a profesional fight, despite fighting the best fighters in the world practicaly from the opening gate.

Green Ali was dropped by Cooper, Foreman was dropped by Young. Jeffries was fighting punchers like these with only half a dozen fights and nobody dropped him.

This was a man with an exceptional chin.



What do you think Tom Sharkey did?

He was agresive to the point of brainlesness.



Lets start with Terry McGovern.



He would have been seen as such at the time.

Even much later, a win over Choynski could catapult you to the big time.



I have to respectfully disagree.

I would not consider Norton to be a defensive fighter on any level.

Was Peralta ever realy world class?

The bottom line is that Foreman is verry unproven against defensive fighters. You tried to come up with an example of a great defensive fighter he beat, and were left with Peralta.



Dosn't the Jimmy Young fight make you think that somebody lie Gene Tunney or Tommy Loughran would be in the fight against him?



I can name a few punchers that I would favour over Foreman, especialy those who could counter. I would not like his chances against Joe Louis or Sonny Liston for example.



You are half right.

Jeffries is not taking punches from Foreman, but at the same time he is not getting knocked down by Henry Cooper or Jimmy Young, despite taking a lot of punishment from similar punchers as a green fighter.

This guy had a chin like an anvil.
This guy was kod for several minutes by possibly the lightest hitting of all the heavyweight champions.

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Old 04-02-2012, 06:21 PM   #197
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries v George Foreman

[quote=mcvey;12487467][quote=janitor;12485953][quote=mcvey;12485729]
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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
Louis stated he weighed 199.5lbs for the Conn fight, in his autobiography he goes into some detail about how he was concerned not to be perceived as the "bully" and so determined to come in under 200lbs, he went without food ,and liquid, and said he felt like shit when the fight started. I believe you are getting mixed up here.

Conn was announced as 174lbs, but is believed to have been 168lbs.
I heard that Louis was actualy a couple of ounces over 200, but was anounced at 199.5.
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:24 PM   #198
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries v George Foreman

[quote=mcvey;12487610][quote=janitor;12472354]
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This guy was kod for several minutes by possibly the lightest hitting of all the heavyweight champions.

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Much ink has been spilled on whether this actualy happened or not (Jeffries always denied it). The most credible versions have Corbett dropping Jeffries but not knocking him out.

Either way, Jeffries was essentialy an amateur at this stage.
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:29 PM   #199
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries v George Foreman

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
There is still no way I see james beating george.

He doesn't fight like ali and young and only they beat a prime george.

He doesn't hit hard enough to knock george out.

He wasn't particularly hard to hit. He'll basically get walked down.
The Lyle fight should give you some pause for thought.

Jeffries probably didn't hit as hard as Lyle, but he was probably a better counterpuncher, and certainly a lot more durable.
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:32 PM   #200
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries v George Foreman

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The Lyle fight should give you some pause for thought.

Jeffries probably didn't hit as hard as Lyle, but he was probably a better counterpuncher, and certainly a lot more durable.
And if Lyle fought Corbett, Sharkey and Fitz as his greatest challenges, we would be talking about him as the greatest puncher and iron man the sport has ever witnessed.
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:34 PM   #201
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries v George Foreman

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The Lyle fight should give you some pause for thought.

Jeffries probably didn't hit as hard as Lyle, but he was probably a better counterpuncher, and certainly a lot more durable.
The lyle fight leads me to believe louis and tyson beat george. But not james, guy is overmatched.

His durability is questionable considering his opposition.
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:40 PM   #202
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries v George Foreman

[quote=janitor;12487619][quote=mcvey;12487467][quote=janitor;12485953]
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I heard that Louis was actualy a couple of ounces over 200, but was anounced at 199.5.
Not according to Joseph Louis Barrow.
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:42 PM   #203
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries v George Foreman

[quote=janitor;12487655][quote=mcvey;12487610]
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Originally Posted by janitor View Post

Much ink has been spilled on whether this actualy happened or not (Jeffries always denied it). The most credible versions have Corbett dropping Jeffries but not knocking him out.

Either way, Jeffries was essentialy an amateur at this stage.
It happened allright, William Brady was there.
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:44 PM   #204
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries v George Foreman

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
The Lyle fight should give you some pause for thought.

Jeffries probably didn't hit as hard as Lyle, but he was probably a better counterpuncher, and certainly a lot more durable.
And Lyle was almost certainly a better boxer.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:33 PM   #205
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries v George Foreman

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How many ATGs have actualy faced a prime Foreman Bowe or Lewis?

Jeffries was essentialy beating the type of challengers that were available to every ATG prior to the 70s.

Fitz, Corbett and Sharkey all got their contender status by beating the best men over 200lbs.



I have never said that, but I will insist that beating the top contender always trumps beating a bigger guy who was never the top contender.



Again, we have this obsesion with the size of the guys he beat!

There were pleanty of big fighters in Jeffries era.

Would it mean a lot to you if he had beaten Denver Ed Martin or Sandy Ferguson, instead of Bob Fitzsimmons who was the top challenger?
Fitz never beat a world class man over 200lbs. Look it up. He beat three fat lumps of no class at all.
Sharkey only beat one man of 200lbs, 205lbs Fred Russell and he was 11-5-2 at the time.

Corbett beat two men over 200lbs a totally washed up ,bloated ,booze ridden, 36years old Sullivan ,and a 201lbs Kilrain in a 6 rounder.
If there were plenty of big fighters in Jeffries era , how come he never faced them?

Last edited by mcvey; 04-02-2012 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:34 PM   #206
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries v George Foreman

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Fitz never beat a world class man over 200lbs. Look it up. He beat three fat lumps of no class at all.
Sharkey only beat one man of 200lbs, 205lbs Fred Russell and he was 11-5-2 at the time.

Corbett beat two men over 200lbs a totally washed up bloated booze ridden 36years old Sullivan ,and a 201lbs Kilrain in a 6 rounder.
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