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Old 04-04-2012, 08:48 AM   #16
PhillyPhan69
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Default Re: Why Wasn't Rocky Marciano Hated For Retiring Joe Louis?

Different eras and circumstances....so far apart that a comparrison cannot be made...+ I don't think beating Ali had anything to do with Holme's lack of popularity...even though he was my fav of the day!
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:49 AM   #17
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Default Re: Why Wasn't Rocky Marciano Hated For Retiring Joe Louis?

Rocky did take some heat for turning his back on Joe after the bout. As it turns out, Marciano didn't want Louis to see him crying, but yeah, he did indeed have to cope with some resentment at the time. Joe himself had to say, "That's okay. I've knocked lots of guys out!"

Holmes did weep openly in his dressing room after Ali, and admitted as much to an interviewer on camera, having his head bowed in sorrow before raising his face to speak. In actuality, a lot of people hated Muhammad's guts, resented him for most recently upstaging the conclusion of Holmes-LeDoux (which Larry himself actually didn't seem to mind, considering the payday and recognition he saw about to come his way), and wanted somebody to finally really beat the shit out of Ali and come out on top (like everybody I knew at work).

Pryor was bawling his eyes out during the post fight interview with Arguello following his rematch with Alexis. Different eras and different situations evoking different reactions.

The fact is that Muhammad attempted to use clandestinely use Thyrolar as a PED against Holmes, paid a heavy price for it, then used that as the excuse for his poor performance in trying to make a case for another chance. This is absolutely akin to Holyfield saying that steroids were responsible for the heart dysfunction which caused him to be defeated by Moorer, and that he should have a rematch to show how much better he could do against MM by virtue of this. If Holmes-Ali had taken place in this day and age, Muhammad might have been excoriated for attempting his sleazy trick the way Tyson was for cannibalizing Holyfield's ear. (Would we have ever heard about the Thyrolar if it had worked as Ali intended?)
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:38 AM   #18
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Default Re: Why Wasn't Rocky Marciano Hated For Retiring Joe Louis?

Marciano had to fight Joe Louis...The Rock was on his way up...and Louis was on the comeback trail...it was a sort of passing of the guard....it's happened all through out the history of boxing ...and Joe was the favorite going into the fight in October 1951...Rocky hated beating Joe Louis...
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:44 PM   #19
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Default Re: Why Wasn't Rocky Marciano Hated For Retiring Joe Louis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by apollack View Post
Assuming your premise is true, in addition to what others have said, I'll add the following:

Louis was still an elite fighter who could beat top guys, who was on an eight fight win streak against solid opponents, taking on a guy whom he outweighed by nearly 30 pounds. Interesting in its inception. Plus, Louis put up a creditable performance until getting caught.

Conversely, Ali had been looking like he was on his last legs for quite some time. He had lost to Spinks, won the rematch, but still looked very old. He then retired and did not do anything for two years. An aging guy who was inactive for that long was likely not going to have anything at all. He was having health issues, and if I recall correctly his doctor, Ferdie Pacheco, had quit him in protest. Then, when the fight happened, Ali looked like a listless dead man the entire fight, just taking a beating for 10 rounds.

Not saying it is right for some to be upset at Holmes. He was just doing his job. But just trying to explain why there might have been more bitter feeling at seeing him pummel an aging and inactive legend for 10 rounds, vs. Marciano in a competitive fight against a guy who although well past it, at least had been active and beating good fighters and showed his boxing skill before getting taken out. Holmes-Ali was one of the saddest, most one-sided beat downs of a guy who had nothing to offer except his ability to take it that I have ever seen. For those who remembered what Ali once was, it was both shocking and very saddening, so it is semi-understandable that there may be some irrational ill will towards the guy who administered such a beating to an old, shot, inactive, medically questionable guy.
This.
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Old 04-04-2012, 02:46 PM   #20
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Default Re: Why Wasn't Rocky Marciano Hated For Retiring Joe Louis?

Holmes was cold. And Marciano's face fit the cap of a majority's perceived working class hero better than Larry, so a definite race element there.

The press changed too, from being generally racially biased to being far more tranparent in the 80s. The view of Louis was generally rendered by just the newspapers at that time, but by Ali's time an explosion in media turned Ali into a phenomena that everyone could love, and Ali's face and manner fitted that tv image well.

And whilst Louis was a living legend, Ali was a global marketing force by the 70s.
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:34 PM   #21
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Default Re: Why Wasn't Rocky Marciano Hated For Retiring Joe Louis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duodenum View Post
Rocky did take some heat for turning his back on Joe after the bout. As it turns out, Marciano didn't want Louis to see him crying, but yeah, he did indeed have to cope with some resentment at the time. Joe himself had to say, "That's okay. I've knocked lots of guys out!"

Holmes did weep openly in his dressing room after Ali, and admitted as much to an interviewer on camera, having his head bowed in sorrow before raising his face to speak. In actuality, a lot of people hated Muhammad's guts, resented him for most recently upstaging the conclusion of Holmes-LeDoux (which Larry himself actually didn't seem to mind, considering the payday and recognition he saw about to come his way), and wanted somebody to finally really beat the shit out of Ali and come out on top (like everybody I knew at work).

Pryor was bawling his eyes out during the post fight interview with Arguello following his rematch with Alexis. Different eras and different situations evoking different reactions.

The fact is that Muhammad attempted to use clandestinely use Thyrolar as a PED against Holmes, paid a heavy price for it, then used that as the excuse for his poor performance in trying to make a case for another chance. This is absolutely akin to Holyfield saying that steroids were responsible for the heart dysfunction which caused him to be defeated by Moorer, and that he should have a rematch to show how much better he could do against MM by virtue of this. If Holmes-Ali had taken place in this day and age, Muhammad might have been excoriated for attempting his sleazy trick the way Tyson was for cannibalizing Holyfield's ear. (Would we have ever heard about the Thyrolar if it had worked as Ali intended?)
Picture perfect post.
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:53 PM   #22
edward morbius
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Default Re: Why Wasn't Rocky Marciano Hated For Retiring Joe Louis?

"Rocky did take some heat for turning his back on Joe"

The film shows Rocky hurrying over to Louis the instant the physician finishes with Joe and Joe is helped to his feet. They obviously talk quite a bit at that point.

*I think it important to remember that Marciano was an ethnic fighter himself. Being an Italian-American in those days was similar to being a Mexican-American today. And the Italian-Americans were obviously going to rally behind one of their own.
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