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Old 01-01-2011, 12:10 PM   #16
El Bujia
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Default Re: Charley Burley - Convince Me Of His Genius

The highlights against Smith prove his masterful skills, in my opinion, even if you're not willing to accept the contemporary accounts.
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Old 01-01-2011, 12:18 PM   #17
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Default Re: Charley Burley - Convince Me Of His Genius

Yeah, that Moore story is for shit. Didn't Otty publish, either in the book or on the website, a program for the fight published a few days in advance? I understand that it was short notice, but not as short as was made out.


As to the question at hand, just look at the mans wins. That should sort out any confusion.

Then take a closer look at his losses.

Charles x2. Lost his eleventh outing (from memory) of the year, and then twenty days later fought and beat Holman Williams, possibly better than any active fighter, before losing to Charles for the second time something like a week later - who would name the light-middle favoured to beat Holman Williams and then take on and beat Ezzard Charles a few days later?

Marshall. Very close fight against a bigger ATG and Burley starts with a fractured hand. Who's the light-middle or middleweight who is going to beat Marshall one-handed?

A green Bivins - young, but still one of the greats, and again, a bigger man.

Holman Williams. Williams, who GPater described as possibly the best pure boxer in history the other day (Which I think is reasonable) beat Burley more than once, but it is worth noting that Burley lost at least one of those fights after throwing out his shoulder having knocked Williams down multiple times - in the box seat, Burley didn't win another round after the 9th (or the 10th, I forget). Also note that Burley was winning the NC between the two, though both men were being made to miss in that one.

Fritzie Zivic beat him for 1/3, in a very close, possibly bad decision. That's a greenish version of Burley losing to a prime Zivic, the fighter that Robinson named the smartest he ever faced - before avenging the loss twice.


Plus we have that sliver of film, Burley out-muscling, punching and boxing a ranked LHW contender who was also perhaps the hardest puncher boxing at that time. Burley is one of the best that ever did it.
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:18 PM   #18
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Default Re: Charley Burley - Convince Me Of His Genius

Top, great stuff so far.
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Old 01-08-2011, 08:54 AM   #19
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Default Re: Charley Burley - Convince Me Of His Genius

Also add in the fact that the film we have of Billy Smith, shows that he was no mug and very dangerous.
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Old 01-08-2011, 08:56 AM   #20
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Default Re: Charley Burley - Convince Me Of His Genius

Quote:
Originally Posted by teeto View Post
I'd say Ezzard is top ten for a lot of people
he is for me.could even be top 5
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:18 AM   #21
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Default Re: Charley Burley - Convince Me Of His Genius

Burley was certainly one of the greats. But am I right in thinking he wasn't much of a draw ?

Burley v Zale would have been interesting, around 1941.
It's a shame the war interrupted Zale's reign.
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Old 04-05-2012, 06:54 AM   #22
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Default Re: Charley Burley - Convince Me Of His Genius

During the war years no mw was on top of the world for longer imo (although the ring disagree with me).

He stopped williams for the coloured championship and was robbed in the rematch. He then lost a tough close fight to lloyd marshall.

Marshall and williams would fight each other in another disputed contest (judges didn't like marshall for some reason) and struggled in further fights. Meanwhile burley was consistently winning against a similar level of opposition but the cherry for me was when he pushed moore's shit in. Archie isn't just a great hindsight win, he wasn't far removed from being ring's top mw.

Burley stayed at the top until losing to williams again.

Between him and williams the war years were pretty sown up but burley beats him by a couple of month imo.

His depth of opposition is very impressive with victories from zivic to williams to moore.

What's more telling than anything is robinson's huge reluctance to face burley. A man that I personally think is best boxer in history, didn't want to face this man. As far as intangibles go, that ranks pretty highly.

His skill looks awesome on film imo, one of the best.

The downside for me is, as with all top contenders during the war, he could never face the recognised champion. Would he have beaten zale had he not been called up? I personally think so.
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