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Old 04-02-2012, 04:22 PM   #1231
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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Originally Posted by slip&counter View Post
I don't think his legs are the same. But i wouldn't say they're 'gone'. He's just more settled down as most great technical fighters seem to get with age.

There have been many older fighters who settled down and stopped moving so much later in their careers: Ali, Hagler, Leonard, Robinson, Whitaker etc. Floyd conserves energy while he stays in the pocket. He doesn't have to give up much ground like he did before and wants to be more in the pocket with these guys.

Floyd has also got a lot stronger. If you look him in the early days he gave up too much ground because he didn't have the neccesary strength imo. Now he has. I think he took off time to not only let the welterweight landscape clear but to also get stronger.

All you have to do is look how much ground he gave up to Carlos Baldomir. Floyd would not have been comfortable fighting Miguel Cotto or Antonio Margarito at that time. With time and hard work you can get really strong in a couple of years, Floyd has.

Something else people don't realise is, Floyd had terrible hand problems for a long time. Well, his hand problems have cleared. That's one of the reasons he's walking people down and throwing more power punches and sitting down. Also stylistically that's the way he thinks he'll beat these guys today. Once he's figured them out he can press on the front foot.
Said fight he had hand problems which could be a reason why he didn't try to tand his ground more.
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:24 PM   #1232
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Time to bump this thread..

Finishing the art of..

Really annoys me seeing fighters who allow themselves to be clinched so easily. The do move there feet to change angles and avoid the desperate clinches of there fragile opponent.

Really frustrating stuff, that and fighters who headhunt or throw 100 punches like Mike Jones....

I do wonder if fighters need to be trained in this type scenario. I personally felt Brook lacked the finishing skills to stop Hatton. Pure head hunting instead of changing levels.
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Old 04-07-2012, 05:14 PM   #1233
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

David Haye V's John Ruiz was terrible finishing. He was loading up and leaping in when he was already in range which made him inaccurate and he ended up throwing arm punches and rabbit shots just to land something after getting far to close. If he stayed calm and just kept landing he could of scored and early KO and looked like a world beater.
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Old 04-07-2012, 05:15 PM   #1234
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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Originally Posted by JukeboxTimebomb View Post
David Haye V's John Ruiz was terrible finishing. He was loading up and leaping in when he was already in range which made him inaccurate and he ended up throwing arm punches and rabbit shots just to land something after getting far to close. If he stayed calm and just kept landing he could of scored and early KO and looked like a world beater.
Yeah Haye is a very messy finisher, often clumps and uses rabbit punches.
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Old 04-07-2012, 05:18 PM   #1235
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Brook is a poor finisher, agree with that 100%. Its evident in most of his fights that he isnt very accomplished at taking guys out once he's hurt them & they look on the brink of going.

Great finishers usually have good variety, they can mix up from body to head & can change-up the speed & power of shots, alternating between fast flurries & loading up on big single punches.

I'm clueless how to train at finishing because a lot of seems instinctive, an odd blend of being cool-headed & calculating but spiteful & vicious at the same time.

Brook has the arsenal to improve at finishing but I'm not sure he has the right temperament or style to do so.

Haye was a poor finisher as well, always got too excited

Edit: found this on youtube today, it was posted about a month ago. Its Kell Brook winning a junior aba final, Ive never seen any amatuer footage of Kell before & thought I'd share.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWEBGRBmlkU[/ame]
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Old 04-08-2012, 03:15 AM   #1236
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Haye was absolutely horrendous most of the time, though the finish of Mormeck is pretty clinical stuff.

Using Audley as a climbing frame was embarrassing stuff, winging in hooks from outer Mongolia and rabbit punches galore.

I'd say the two key things are remaining calm and making sure you give yourself distance to punch, and being able to use the uppercut if the opponent is decent at clinching, and remember to go to the body to bring the hands down.

This is one of my favourites.....

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-cw4olewYc[/ame]


I think Pac was a pretty murderous finisher before his series of ''let's be nice'' fights, and Marquez was just too good for him in all honesty.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:01 AM   #1237
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Taylor V's Pavlik is probably the best fight for showing how to finish and how not to finish.

When Pavlik got hurt Taylor just winged away with wide lefts and rights and if Pavlik hadn't of stuck his chin out and eaten some follow up shots flush he wouldn't have had such a torrid 2nd. But even after that with a Pavlik falling forward on wobbly legs Taylor still just went on windmilling when a couple of well placed shots, especially some uppercuts, would of finished the fight in the 2nd round.
When Pavlik hurt Taylor he was so accurate and mixed his shots up well, he landed a left uppercut and a right uppercut with Taylor in the corner that rocked Taylors head back. He did it so calm and quickly he really does show how important uppercuts are when finishing people.

Its all in this vid. Kelly was a good finisher, hopefully Garcia gets him back to a decent level.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QJwtmv86x8[/ame]
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:13 AM   #1238
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Good post Jukebox.

Pavlik is one fighter who really needed time to be put into perspective. His hideous post-Taylor II showings (even that was a bit lacklustre IMO) and fall from relevancy clouded what was a pretty solid fighter.

For his prime at 160 he was big guy and a thunderous puncher when he put it all together. A big guy at the weight, he was vulnerable but tough and had good powers of recovery. Certainly a devastating finisher on-form, if one of the weaker lineal champions. Jermain was athletically gifted but clueless in adaptability and low on ring I.Q.

That above video would've been perfect with the Zuniga fight as well
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:28 AM   #1239
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Yeah, Taylor's ring IQ was badly lacking.

The Froch fight just summed him up perfectly. It's a fight that really he had in the bag, perhaps he should have got rid of Carl too..... but in the end he ended up getting stopped himself.

That finish from Froch is right up there with the best I've seen too, it could quite easily have gone pearshaped, not in the sense that he'd get banjoed himself, but that the bell would have gone and he'd have lost.

Lots of fighters would have jumped in all guns blazing, dragging wild hooks up from their bootlaces and been clinched for the rest of the round.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:36 AM   #1240
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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Originally Posted by JukeboxTimebomb View Post
David Haye V's John Ruiz was terrible finishing. He was loading up and leaping in when he was already in range which made him inaccurate and he ended up throwing arm punches and rabbit shots just to land something after getting far to close. If he stayed calm and just kept landing he could of scored and early KO and looked like a world beater.
Cant blame him he decked him early and just got over excited, I enjoyed that fight though.

As for Kell Brook he does lack that killer instinct and if he cant go for it against a non dangerous Matthew Hatton it will never happen. The only person who could bring that out of him is Amir Khan because the hype for that would be awesome.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:37 AM   #1241
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

i think the secret to finishing is to stay calm and pick your shots. too many people go mental and throw everything as fast and hard as they cAan and if they dont put them away they gas.

so i think the secret is to feint and variety of shots. if someone is hurt then they are reacting on instinct and their movement and defense reflects this. so they expect left-right-left-right all thrown at the same beat (time)

going to their body is essential too. if hurt you basically get a free shot to really load up to the body with. great opportunity to get some further hurt on someone.

i think people neglect the jab too much too. jab feint jab. a solid jab will keep someone buzzed so you can last something more substantial.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:46 AM   #1242
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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Cant blame him he decked him early and just got over excited, I enjoyed that fight though.

As for Kell Brook he does lack that killer instinct and if he cant go for it against a non dangerous Matthew Hatton it will never happen. The only person who could bring that out of him is Amir Khan because the hype for that would be awesome.
Haye was usually a sloppy finisher though. You can 'blame' him as it shows he wasn't all that as a finisher, he hurt Bonin early as well and kept his composure much better.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:55 AM   #1243
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

He just fell in love with his power and no one was working with Haye to steady his finishing. Look at Joe Louis, probably the greatest finisher ever. Placement, poise and control. He didn't throw and hope to land something conclusive, he saw the perfect place then threw to hit it.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:58 AM   #1244
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Arguello as well. The two greatest finishers IMO. Leonard and Robinson too.
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:04 AM   #1245
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Leonard is just a great fighter to watch all round - serious quality and all-round skills. Arguello was destructive when he saw an opening. Who do you think is the best finisher in the game right.now, flea? Be hood to get slip and mand's views too.
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