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Old 04-16-2012, 01:14 PM   #31
lufcrazy
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Default Re: Tyson-Holyfield 2

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Originally Posted by Kalasinn View Post
Ok, Mike made Danny do the unga-bunga dance with one big punch... that doesn't mean he didn't look like shit.
Yes we should just be grateful danny kept on his dancing shoes because had the fight ended then, that version of Tyson against that version of Vitali. Oh sweet lord I'm glad we didn't have to see that fight.

Vitali would have been super motivated and could have actually killed mike
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:40 PM   #32
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Default Re: Tyson-Holyfield 2

IMO Tyson looked better and more prepared than the first vs Holyfield. He may have been a less confident (as he was over confident in the first meeting). The headbutt cut made him angry and instinctively wanted to hurt Holyfield. Which in turn inspired Tyson fighting as close as he could to prime form (considering his state of mind/ motivation).

Had he not bit Holy he could have seriously won that fight. The head movement of the third round was something unseen in the first fight. If he kept this up another round or so till like maybe the late 4th or early 5th, Holy would have been in trouble (possibly ko'd).

Last edited by SignTheContract; 04-16-2012 at 01:40 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:17 PM   #33
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Default Re: Tyson-Holyfield 2

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Ok so you disagree, no need to be dismissive.
I just diasagreed...........simple.
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:33 PM   #34
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Default Re: Tyson-Holyfield 2

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Originally Posted by Stevie G View Post
Quite right Hook. Tyson had nothing left at all in those fights.
Tinkerbell had no Xplosive left, so "Kid Dynamite" when his fuse had gone became just "Kid", as in a v.insecure angry little man-child, with a chip on his shoulder teh size of Nebraska state!! Tyson without Xplosiveness is like Ali without Slickness, But much worse.


Foreman Hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooook!
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:17 PM   #35
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Default Re: Tyson-Holyfield 2

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First fight, he was much more confident, maybe a little overconfident, remember the whole world though Holy was shot and this wouldnt last long.
I disagree.

I dont think Tyson was that confident in the first fight either. He hadnt had his ass kicked yet but Holyfield`s confidence leading up to the fight bothered Mike Tyson.

I believed that Tyson`s camp sensed that and thats why they interjected the bullshit about Holyfield`s alleged statement about never fighting a "Rapist".

They felt like they needed to make the shit up to pump Tyson up. The only thing that wasnt clear wwas how much Evander had left after those tough wars in the mid 90d. By the second bout it was clear Holyfield had plenty left.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:33 PM   #36
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Default Re: Tyson-Holyfield 2

You must mind, ETM......Holyfield wasn't given a prayer before the first bout and after his knockout loss to Bowe in their 3rd fight his showing against Czyz was poor and mediocre. He also lost to Moorer and won against Mercer in his previous fights before Bowe III. He was 2-2 in fights before Tyson. And in those four fights he was hardly convincing. The fights with Tyson just got the best out of him, as did the Moorer rematch for revenge. After the Moorer rematch he against had poor performances against Bean and Lewis.

He just happened to put on superb performances against Tyson when he was past his prime. I think the Holyfield of 90/93 was in his prime.
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:53 AM   #37
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Default Re: Tyson-Holyfield 2

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You must mind, ETM......Holyfield wasn't given a prayer before the first bout and after his knockout loss to Bowe in their 3rd fight his showing against Czyz was poor and mediocre. He also lost to Moorer and won against Mercer in his previous fights before Bowe III. He was 2-2 in fights before Tyson. And in those four fights he was hardly convincing. The fights with Tyson just got the best out of him, as did the Moorer rematch for revenge. After the Moorer rematch he against had poor performances against Bean and Lewis.

He just happened to put on superb performances against Tyson when he was past his prime. I think the Holyfield of 90/93 was in his prime.
He had enough left to give Lewis a struggle in the rematch. I do agree he was prime in the early 90s. That doesnt mean he didnt have something left after that.

Thing is that when you face A competition your going to struggle at times. Holyfield getting stopped by Bowe in the 3rd fight is a little misleading because he was sick{Hepetitis} going into that fight and in hindsight probably shouldve canceled the bout.

Had Tyson fought Holyfield`s schedule he may have been finished long before that. He was busy fighing the Frank Brunos and Bruce Seldons of the world.
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Old 04-17-2012, 05:31 AM   #38
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Default Re: Tyson-Holyfield 2

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Originally Posted by SignTheContract View Post
IMO Tyson looked better and more prepared than the first vs Holyfield. He may have been a less confident (as he was over confident in the first meeting). The headbutt cut made him angry and instinctively wanted to hurt Holyfield. Which in turn inspired Tyson fighting as close as he could to prime form (considering his state of mind/ motivation).

Had he not bit Holy he could have seriously won that fight. The head movement of the third round was something unseen in the first fight. If he kept this up another round or so till like maybe the late 4th or early 5th, Holy would have been in trouble (possibly ko'd).
disagree.

He had already given his best & Tyson was the only guy hurt in the fight. What fight did Tyson ever have where he got better and stronger as the fight wears on? How many of his fights went past 3 rounds anyway---if a guy made it that far, just how many A+ Mike Tyson performances are we talking about? Mike is/was an early rounds guy and that's why he has those results early. Not late. Holyfield showed he could weather storms and hang tough and land punches on Tyson. Tyson was going to absorb more as rounds went by and his reflexes worsened. Holyfield was just going to take him out to deep water and drown him once again and Tyson knew it and that's why the ear biting.
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Old 04-17-2012, 07:30 AM   #39
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Default Re: Tyson-Holyfield 2

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I disagree.

I dont think Tyson was that confident in the first fight either. He hadnt had his ass kicked yet but Holyfield`s confidence leading up to the fight bothered Mike Tyson.

I believed that Tyson`s camp sensed that and thats why they interjected the bullshit about Holyfield`s alleged statement about never fighting a "Rapist".

They felt like they needed to make the shit up to pump Tyson up. The only thing that wasnt clear wwas how much Evander had left after those tough wars in the mid 90d. By the second bout it was clear Holyfield had plenty left.
'I was supremely confident i would beat Evander Holyfield, he was a good fighter, but he wasnt in my league'

I dont think Tyson was ever scared of Holyfield in the first fight. If he was he would have trained much harder and wouldnt have been gassing after about 4-5 rounds and would have come in with a better gamplan rather than try take Holyfield out of there with one punch (which is what he spent the whole night doing).

Ive read about the rapist comment but didnt know whether it was true or not
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Old 04-17-2012, 07:59 AM   #40
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Default Re: Tyson-Holyfield 2

I dont think Tyson knew how bad he had gotten until he faced Holyfield. He should have beaten Holyfield, who realistically wasnt all that good around the time Tyson faced him. Holyfield never really looked all that great again after the second Moorer fight where he got his bell rung pretty badly in the first round.

Tyson knew he had to beat a guy like Holyfield to justify any kind of credibility as a top level fighter and he couldnt get it done. I think he came into the second fight with the thought he wasnt fully prepared for the first and with a better gameplan in place and when things started going south it was the start of a very bad state mentally for Tyson.

I think that second fight sent Tyson back into that kid from the olympics who had little to no confidence in his ability and needed constant reinforcement from his corner and in training. We saw that from Tyson in training camp where he just wasnt that confident in his ability anymore. He barely made it through the Botha fight and basically cried in the corner he was so frustrated. He hit Norris after the bell and basically needed to be rebuilt from the ground up by Tommy Brooks.
I think Tyson took the second Holyfield fight because he knew if he couldnt get past Holyfield he was going to just bullshit his way through boxing for the rest of his career and milk as much money as he could and thats basically exactly what he did.
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:33 PM   #41
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Default Re: Tyson-Holyfield 2

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Originally Posted by salty trunks View Post
I dont think Tyson knew how bad he had gotten until he faced Holyfield. He should have beaten Holyfield, who realistically wasnt all that good around the time Tyson faced him. Holyfield never really looked all that great again after the second Moorer fight where he got his bell rung pretty badly in the first round.

Tyson knew he had to beat a guy like Holyfield to justify any kind of credibility as a top level fighter and he couldnt get it done. I think he came into the second fight with the thought he wasnt fully prepared for the first and with a better gameplan in place and when things started going south it was the start of a very bad state mentally for Tyson.

I think that second fight sent Tyson back into that kid from the olympics who had little to no confidence in his ability and needed constant reinforcement from his corner and in training. We saw that from Tyson in training camp where he just wasnt that confident in his ability anymore. He barely made it through the Botha fight and basically cried in the corner he was so frustrated. He hit Norris after the bell and basically needed to be rebuilt from the ground up by Tommy Brooks.
I think Tyson took the second Holyfield fight because he knew if he couldnt get past Holyfield he was going to just bullshit his way through boxing for the rest of his career and milk as much money as he could and thats basically exactly what he did.
Great answer. I think Tyson was already bullshitting his way through boxing even before Holyfield when he ducked Lewis. Also, why didn't he fight Foreman or Bowe after his comeback? I always wondered though; did Don King and the rest of the Tyson administration really expect to win the second Holyfield fight? It doesn't seem likely that they would think Tyson could beat a guy that already showed that he could take his punches. Why would they risk their golden boy taking even more punishment when he could have been fighting lesser opponents? Huge mistake taking that fight.
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:20 PM   #42
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Default Re: Tyson-Holyfield 2

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Originally Posted by Azzer85 View Post
'I was supremely confident i would beat Evander Holyfield, he was a good fighter, but he wasnt in my league'

I dont think Tyson was ever scared of Holyfield in the first fight. If he was he would have trained much harder and wouldnt have been gassing after about 4-5 rounds and would have come in with a better gamplan rather than try take Holyfield out of there with one punch (which is what he spent the whole night doing).

Ive read about the rapist comment but didnt know whether it was true or not
He may have played that role. The role of the bully must be confidence or arrogance. It certainly wasnt real confidence. If it was genuine he wouldnt have been looking for a way out of the fight after the first few rounds.

Tyson may have been hanging on to the belief that Holyfield was shot.

Lets be serious. Who had Tyson beaten since he had gotten released? Why would he be Supremely confident? Holyfield had proven himself great warriror and was gonna leave everything in that ring.

Holyfield would take every fight with Mike Tyson to a place that has nothing to do with boxing. Everything to do with heart, desire, determination and conditioning. A place Mike Tyson didnt want to see. Especially at that point in his career.
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:51 PM   #43
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Default Re: Tyson-Holyfield 2

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Originally Posted by UncleDenny View Post
Great answer. I think Tyson was already bullshitting his way through boxing even before Holyfield when he ducked Lewis. Also, why didn't he fight Foreman or Bowe after his comeback? I always wondered though; did Don King and the rest of the Tyson administration really expect to win the second Holyfield fight? It doesn't seem likely that they would think Tyson could beat a guy that already showed that he could take his punches. Why would they risk their golden boy taking even more punishment when he could have been fighting lesser opponents? Huge mistake taking that fight.
Interesting point.

From Don King`s perspective he might have wanted to avoid a rematch but it was huge $$. The people wanted it and if Tyson had ducked him it would have looked really bad.
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Old 04-17-2012, 04:04 PM   #44
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Default Re: Tyson-Holyfield 2

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Originally Posted by ETM View Post
Interesting point.

From Don King`s perspective he might have wanted to avoid a rematch but it was huge $$. The people wanted it and if Tyson had ducked him it would have looked really bad.
Very true. He should have waited though. I think Tyson could have TKoed a post 99 Holyfield.
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:28 AM   #45
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Default Re: Tyson-Holyfield 2

The bad smell from the Seldon match still hadn't gone away too, to the extent that Don King kept referring to Tyson Holy 1 as justification for strong match making. So at that stage, the public wouldn't buy Tyson refusing the rematch clause which he himself (through his team) insisted on.
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