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Old 02-17-2008, 09:29 AM   #16
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Default Re: Was Hearns stopped prematurely against SRL?

Correct stoppage, in my view. Tommy was taking too many shots by that stage and didn't have much left at all.
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Old 02-18-2008, 07:50 AM   #17
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Default Re: Was Hearns stopped prematurely against SRL?

It's a hard one to call, but it's probably better to err on the side of caution and in that sense it probably was an OK stoppage. Hearns was taking a few shots but his legs hadn't gone, I think a lot of refs would have let him carry on.

I saw the Benetiz stoppage and though it was premature, though SRL was going to win the fight.
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Old 02-18-2008, 10:22 AM   #18
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Default Re: Was Hearns stopped prematurely against SRL?

SRL/Benitez was as much of a bullshit stoppage as Quarry/Spencer. But Hearns had clearly faded from Ray's body attack (despite Tommy's vociferous protestations to the contrary), and he had started to take too many punches to the head. Anybody who watched the way Ray put out Davey Boy Green's lights, and later saw the state Hearns was in after Hagler and Barkley I, knows what a potentially dangerous situation that could have been.

If Davey Pearl had never intervened, and Hearns was allowed to continue as long as he could, there's no question in what little there is of my mind that Ray would have taken him out before 15 rounds was up. He'd predicted a knockout, and knew he needed one to win. At the tail end of his 15 rounds with Benitez, he was still loaded with energy. (Just look at him run across the ring to jump up on the corner ropes!) When Hearns staggered towards the ropes before that final flurry, Ray thrust his arms up, playing to the crowd. He had far too much left in the tank for Tommy to have any hopes of weathering the storm.

The reason SRL refused to give Hearns a rematch for years was because he wanted Tommy to admit he could not have continued. In a live studio interview with Cosell after that fight, Hearns pleadingly asked him for another shot. Ray told him a second fight was his if he admitted that he was finished when Pearl stopped it. Thomas refused to concede that, saying he didn't know for sure whether or not he could have kept on going. Considering how badly Hearns was fading in round 12 of the rematch, even having developed the skill of clinching when in trouble, it may a good thing for Tommy that he did stubbornly refuse to admit what Leonard wanted him to. A 15 round return in the early 1980s may have been disastrous for the Hearns legacy.
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Old 02-18-2008, 12:53 PM   #19
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Default Re: Was Hearns stopped prematurely against SRL?

Tommy was burned out because he was underweight. Don't you people have eyes - the man was skin and bones.
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Old 02-18-2008, 12:57 PM   #20
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Default Re: Was Hearns stopped prematurely against SRL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobotomy
SRL/Benitez was as much of a bullshit stoppage as Quarry/Spencer. But Hearns had clearly faded from Ray's body attack (despite Tommy's vociferous protestations to the contrary), and he had started to take too many punches to the head. Anybody who watched the way Ray put out Davey Boy Green's lights, and later saw the state Hearns was in after Hagler and Barkley I, knows what a potentially dangerous situation that could have been.

If Davey Pearl had never intervened, and Hearns was allowed to continue as long as he could, there's no question in what little there is of my mind that Ray would have taken him out before 15 rounds was up. He'd predicted a knockout, and knew he needed one to win. At the tail end of his 15 rounds with Benitez, he was still loaded with energy. (Just look at him run across the ring to jump up on the corner ropes!) When Hearns staggered towards the ropes before that final flurry, Ray thrust his arms up, playing to the crowd. He had far too much left in the tank for Tommy to have any hopes of weathering the storm.

The reason SRL refused to give Hearns a rematch for years was because he wanted Tommy to admit he could not have continued. In a live studio interview with Cosell after that fight, Hearns pleadingly asked him for another shot. Ray told him a second fight was his if he admitted that he was finished when Pearl stopped it. Thomas refused to concede that, saying he didn't know for sure whether or not he could have kept on going. Considering how badly Hearns was fading in round 12 of the rematch, even having developed the skill of clinching when in trouble, it may a good thing for Tommy that he did stubbornly refuse to admit what Leonard wanted him to. A 15 round return in the early 1980s may have been disastrous for the Hearns legacy.
Yes I heard that remark by Leonard-just his way of getting out of another big fight. he was ducking Hagler at that time too. Good thing he didnt accept a rematch with Tommy so I don't blame him. If I was outboxed the way Leonard was I'd duck him for 8 years too.
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Old 02-18-2008, 02:18 PM   #21
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Default Re: Was Hearns stopped prematurely against SRL?

I don't think it was a premature stoppage. Deep down, I don't think Hearns did, either.
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Old 02-18-2008, 02:44 PM   #22
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Default Re: Was Hearns stopped prematurely against SRL?

I was fine with the stoppage. Hearns was spent and taking punishment. Maybe the ref could have let it go on for say 5 to 10 more seconds.
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Old 02-18-2008, 03:35 PM   #23
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Default Re: Was Hearns stopped prematurely against SRL?

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Originally Posted by redrooster
Tommy was burned out because he was underweight. Don't you people have eyes - the man was skin and bones.
So that's a yes or a no?
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Old 02-18-2008, 04:56 PM   #24
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Default Re: Was Hearns stopped prematurely against SRL?

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Originally Posted by redrooster
Yes I heard that remark by Leonard-just his way of getting out of another big fight. he was ducking Hagler at that time too. Good thing he didnt accept a rematch with Tommy so I don't blame him. If I was outboxed the way Leonard was I'd duck him for 8 years too.
And if I was Tommy, I would have told Ray whatever disingenuous lie he wanted to hear, just to get another crack at him. You never know when you're going to get a chance at a rematch, so grab one when the getting is good. Leonard was a master opportunist who knew exactly how to pick his spots. And yes, I thought at the time that Hearns had his number.
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Old 02-18-2008, 05:05 PM   #25
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Default Re: Was Hearns stopped prematurely against SRL?

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Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
So that's a yes or a no?
Read The Ring interview with Hearns a few months after the fight. Interesting words from "The Hitman" on his, so called, questionable stamina during the late rounds, and weight.
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Old 02-18-2008, 05:12 PM   #26
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Default Re: Was Hearns stopped prematurely against SRL?

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Originally Posted by Lobotomy
Leonard was a master opportunist who knew exactly how to pick his spots.
Well said. I'm not a Leonard fan as such, but I would like to think I let my head do the talking and not my heart when it comes to my views on him as a fighter.

Leonard was indeed a master opportunist who knew when, and when not to strike. Another term I like to call a it, a fighter who plays the "percentage game" well. Probably the most overlooked quality Leonard had as a fighter IMO. Yes, he did have fast hands, was powerful inside with hooks, boxed well, and was very durable. But he picked his moments decisively and wisely. The most important part of his rather fine jigsaw.
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Old 02-18-2008, 05:28 PM   #27
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Default Re: Was Hearns stopped prematurely against SRL?

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Originally Posted by Lobotomy
And if I was Tommy, I would have told Ray whatever disingenuous lie he wanted to hear, just to get another crack at him. You never know when you're going to get a chance at a rematch, so grab one when the getting is good. Leonard was a master opportunist who knew exactly how to pick his spots. And yes, I thought at the time that Hearns had his number.

You know leonard wasnt going to give him a rematch. The next excuse he'd come up with was his damn eye was bothering him.
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Old 02-18-2008, 05:40 PM   #28
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Default Re: Was Hearns stopped prematurely against SRL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrooster
Tommy was burned out because he was underweight. Don't you people have eyes - the man was skin and bones.

What's your answer then?
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Old 02-18-2008, 05:58 PM   #29
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Default Re: Was Hearns stopped prematurely against SRL?

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Originally Posted by redrooster
You know leonard wasnt going to give him a rematch. The next excuse he'd come up with was his damn eye was bothering him.
Of course. But at least Tommy would have given him one less excuse to pass.
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Old 02-18-2008, 06:11 PM   #30
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Default Re: Was Hearns stopped prematurely against SRL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbi
Well said. I'm not a Leonard fan as such, but I would like to think I let my head do the talking and not my heart when it comes to my views on him as a fighter.

Leonard was indeed a master opportunist who knew when, and when not to strike. Another term I like to call a it, a fighter who plays the "percentage game" well. Probably the most overlooked quality Leonard had as a fighter IMO. Yes, he did have fast hands, was powerful inside with hooks, boxed well, and was very durable. But he picked his moments decisively and wisely. The most important part of his rather fine jigsaw.
He was shrewdly perceptive in observing the decline of Hagler's speed and reflexes against Mugabe. (In fact, my most vivid memory at the time was Ray applauding Hagler's win in the audience, when the camera took a shot of him. If I recall correctly, it was not suspected at the time that he would be Hagler's next challenger. He hatched his plan as he watched Hagler/Mugabe unfold.)

When it came to dictating the terms of his challlenges of Kalule, Hagler and Lalonde, Ray and his braintrust had no peers. (Kalule made a miniscule fraction of what Leonard did for their fight, even though he was the defending champion. SRL got a 12 round fight and 10 ounce gloves for Hagler. His camp stipulated Lalonde's weight limit for that one. Simply amazing, that he got to call all those shots.)
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