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View Poll Results: where do you rank dempsey?
top 5 33 31.13%
top 10 39 36.79%
top 15 20 18.87%
top 20 5 4.72%
top 25 4 3.77%
not even in my top 100 5 4.72%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-20-2008, 04:05 AM   #301
Holmes' Jab
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Default Re: Where do you rank Jack Dempsey??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_Mac

My work in progress ATG list-

#1 Joe Louis (if only for being an excellent human being)
#2 Ali (if he's not in someone's top 5 they're probably delusional)
#3 Dempsey (reasons stated above)
#4 Ezzard Charles (he was really good IMO)
#5 Gene Tunney (severely underrated)
#6 Joe Frazier (just a bad ass)
#7 Rocky Marciano (really overrated IMO)
#8 Larry Holmes (I don't like larry, but i feel i rate him high)
#9 George Foreman (because of the comeback, respect is given)
#10 Jack Johnson (good legacy)

No offense: Charles and Tunney were great fighters but I'm interested to hear your reasoning on putting them quite so high on your list overall (the depth of their respective CV's, amongst other things doesn't warrant a Top 10 placing IMO). Top 20? Yes, absolutely. Both were legit ATG's at Light Heavyweight. I agree that Dempsey doesn't make the cut, but how exactly does he eat Foreman for breakfast? More like the other way round IMO, Foreman would mash him in the early rounds. Marciano whilst overrated head-to-head gets a Top 5 position overall because of his unblemished record (not the strongest era in HW history, but not quite the very weakest either).

Where exactly do you place Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield and Jeffries?
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Old 02-20-2008, 04:13 AM   #302
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Default Re: Where do you rank Jack Dempsey??

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
1 - Ali
2 - Louis
3 - Liston
4 - Lewis
5 - Frazier
6 - Johnson
7 - Jeffries
8 - Tyson
9 - Marciano
10-Holmes
11-Hollyfield
12-Dempsey
13-Foreman
14-Wills
15-Jackson

I'm leaving it at 15 for the moment. May try to flesh it out to 30.

Great effort I must say. I've only got my Top 20 at the minute, there are some fighters who'd be in consideration for making the grade from 20-30 but I've haven't put 'em into any concise order just yet. Interesting that you have Jeffries as high as #7 and Liston at #3 overall (or is the later based on head-to-head? if so I can fully understand that. I'd have him top 5 in that regard too).

Here's my Top 20:


1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Larry Holmes
4. Lennox Lewis
5. Rocky Marciano
6. Joe Frazier
7. Sonny Liston
8. Mike Tyson
9. Jack Johnson
10. Evander Holyfield
11. George Foreman
12. Jim Jeffries
13. Jack Dempsey
14. Riddick Bowe
15. Harry Wills
16. Floyd Patterson
17. Gene Tunney
18. Peter Jackson
19. Joe Walcott
20. Max Schmeling
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Old 02-20-2008, 04:56 AM   #303
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Default Re: Where do you rank Jack Dempsey??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmes' Jab
Great effort I must say. I've only got my Top 20 at the minute, there are some fighters who'd be in consideration for making the grade from 20-30 but I've haven't put 'em into any concise order just yet. Interesting that you have Jeffries as high as #7 and Liston at #3 overall (or is the later based on head-to-head? if so I can fully understand that. I'd have him top 5 in that regard too).
Cheers. My lists are "composite", so i try to do everything at once, take it all into account and see what I come up with. Liston ranks highly mainly upon head to head, yes, but he was also a great, great contender, and in the Patterson wins he has two victories of such dominance over a fellow great fighter that the achievment is perhaps unparalleled in the history of the sport.

He also looks great on film and is one of the greatest composite punchers to have fought, in my view.

Jeffries is also a bit of a head to head monster for me, always keeping in mind an even spread of consideration as regards rulesets. Apart from that he was as dominant as any champ we've seen, over excellent competition and retired unbeaten. Also, based upon what we know, it's reasonable to rate him at #1 in both chin & durability for the division - not inconsiderable composite credentials!

Quote:
Here's my Top 20:
Quote:


1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Larry Holmes
4. Lennox Lewis
5. Rocky Marciano
6. Joe Frazier
7. Sonny Liston
8. Mike Tyson
9. Jack Johnson
10. Evander Holyfield
11. George Foreman
12. Jim Jeffries
13. Jack Dempsey
14. Riddick Bowe
15. Harry Wills
16. Floyd Patterson
17. Gene Tunney
18. Peter Jackson
19. Joe Walcott
20. Max Schmeling
A fine list. As you know, Jeffries is to low for me and I would certainly argue that Jackson should be in over Patterson, and Wills should be in over Bowe. I also see Ali as a pretty clear #1 in this division..

I could certainly live with this though.
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Old 02-20-2008, 05:06 AM   #304
JohnThomas1
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Default Re: Where do you rank Jack Dempsey??

I stand by my original vote, he snuck into the top 15.
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Old 02-20-2008, 05:13 AM   #305
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Default Re: Where do you rank Jack Dempsey??

Liston's run before he (eventually) got his title shot is reminicent of mid-late 80's Tyson. A 'wrecking ball' type cleaning out of the division, defeating all the top contenders of the day (decisively too) in the process. Upon getting there his two destructions of Patterson were a sight to behold as well, of course people will bring up the 'chin isuue' but few others blew Patterson away in that manner early on.


Folley, Machen, Williams (X2), Valdes, Harris. That pre-title record ain't to be sniffed at. He also remained by and large highly relevant up until his last fights. Head to head monster at his best, you'd struggle to favour more than a few against him.
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Old 02-20-2008, 05:27 AM   #306
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Default Re: Where do you rank Jack Dempsey??

Holmes at 3? Ugh!

Glad I didn't come out with that one.
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Old 02-20-2008, 10:44 AM   #307
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Default Re: Where do you rank Jack Dempsey??

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Originally Posted by RoccoMarciano
Holmes at 3? Ugh!

Glad I didn't come out with that one.

So what does your list look like then?
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Old 02-20-2008, 01:25 PM   #308
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Default Re: Where do you rank Jack Dempsey??

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
There are a few heavyweights that I would not give any human being who had ever boxed much better than even odds against. Dempsey is one of them. As an ofensive fighter and infighter he is without peer at heavyweight.
We don,t agree about Jeffries but we do about Dempsey,and I concur the Johnson Willard fight was legit a,fat,undertrained ,dissipated Johnson at 37 was out lasted by the Cowboy,Jack ran the fight for the first 15 rds ,then he began to fade.
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Old 02-20-2008, 02:36 PM   #309
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Default Re: Where do you rank Jack Dempsey??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmes' Jab
No offense: Charles and Tunney were great fighters but I'm interested to hear your reasoning on putting them quite so high on your list overall (the depth of their respective CV's, amongst other things doesn't warrant a Top 10 placing IMO). Top 20? Yes, absolutely. Both were legit ATG's at Light Heavyweight. I agree that Dempsey doesn't make the cut, but how exactly does he eat Foreman for breakfast? More like the other way round IMO, Foreman would mash him in the early rounds. Marciano whilst overrated head-to-head gets a Top 5 position overall because of his unblemished record (not the strongest era in HW history, but not quite the very weakest either).

Where exactly do you place Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield and Jeffries?
Charles and Tunney, I guess I just thought they deserved it. Tunney hit a lot harder than people give him credit for, and he really brought "science" to the sweet science. Charles had some pretty good competition.

Marciano's "unblemished" record doesn't really help him that much IMO. I'm so sick of hearing about his record.

I just am not as impressed with Lewis, Tyson could have been really great, Holyfield is my #12, and I should probably do some research on Jeffries, I'll admit I guess i just don't know much about him.

I still think the mauler would eviscerate big george haha
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