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Old 02-20-2008, 12:19 PM   #16
AnthonyJ74
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Default Re: Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Frazier and Norton having dinner together

Definitely. I was 15-years old in 1989 as well. And I still have the vhs tape of Champions Forever somewhere. And I even question as to whether or not Ken Norton should have been included. I mean, Norton was obviously a good fighter and he competed at a time when their were a lot of other good fighters, but the facts still remain that he was champion for what, 8-months or so? To include Norton along with the rest of the guys there might have bene a bit of a stretch. But I guess he was included mainly because he gave the great Ali 3 tough fights - winning one of them and losing debatable decisions in the other two.
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Old 02-20-2008, 12:23 PM   #17
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Default Re: Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Frazier and Norton having dinner together

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Originally Posted by AnthonyJ74
Definitely. I was 15-years old in 1989 as well. And I still have the vhs tape of Champions Forever somewhere. And I even question as to whether or not Ken Norton should have been included. I mean, Norton was obviously a good fighter and he competed at a time when their were a lot of other good fighters, but the facts still remain that he was champion for what, 8-months or so? To include Norton along with the rest of the guys there might have bene a bit of a stretch. But I guess he was included mainly because he gave the great Ali 3 tough fights - winning one of them and losing debatable decisions in the other two.
I agree. Norton shouldn't have been included, even if he did give Holmes and Ali hell. They may aswell have included Shavers.
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Old 02-20-2008, 12:27 PM   #18
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Default Re: Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Frazier and Norton having dinner together

Maybe we'll get one with Lewis, Holyfield and Tyson (maybe Bowe too) at some point in the future.
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Old 02-20-2008, 12:45 PM   #19
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Default Re: Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Frazier and Norton having dinner together

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyJ74
Definitely. I was 15-years old in 1989 as well. And I still have the vhs tape of Champions Forever somewhere. And I even question as to whether or not Ken Norton should have been included. I mean, Norton was obviously a good fighter and he competed at a time when their were a lot of other good fighters, but the facts still remain that he was champion for what, 8-months or so? To include Norton along with the rest of the guys there might have bene a bit of a stretch. But I guess he was included mainly because he gave the great Ali 3 tough fights - winning one of them and losing debatable decisions in the other two.
I don't know,

Perhaps they included Norton because he bridged the gap between Ali and Holmes, and to exclude him, may have left some questions. For whatever its worth, he did manage to beat Ali once, and gave an admirable performance when passing the torch to Holmes. I personally think that Norton is a bit underrated myself, but I concur that he was a notch below Ali, Holmes, Frazier and Foreman.
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Old 02-20-2008, 09:39 PM   #20
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Default Re: Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Frazier and Norton having dinner together

is it true that foreman had to sit between ali and frazier to make sure frazier didn't attack ali? it is a pity that frazier is always the bad guy when ali started that shit. oh well.
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Old 02-21-2008, 07:20 AM   #21
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Default Re: Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Frazier and Norton having dinner together

Be nice if they could do it again.

Though on second thoughts, might be a bit sad. Foreman and Holmes are still talkative but Ali, Frazier and Norton would be much worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike464
Maybe we'll get one with Lewis, Holyfield and Tyson (maybe Bowe too) at some point in the future.
I'd love it, but it'd have to be extremely unlikely.

Lewis would be fine with Tyson but dislikes Holyfield and really really hates Bowe.

Holyfield would be fine with Bowe but dislikes Lewis and Tyson.

Tyson, well he'd probably be fine with all of them but might hold a bit of a grudge against Holyfield.

Bowe would be fine with Holyfield but hates Lewis and had often derided Tyson in the past.

Bit of a frosty dinner if all four got around the table, I think!
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Old 02-21-2008, 08:06 AM   #22
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Default Re: Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Frazier and Norton having dinner together

"Champions forever, legends in time..." Beautiful song and a tremendous documentary.

I had to laugh a little when Ali and Frazier start arguing again, and Norton mocks Frazier's slurry speech.
Foreman, trying to be nice, tries to hide his laughter a little but fails.

It may sound a bit strange, but I get all teared up watching the DVD. Time flies by so quickly...
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Old 02-21-2008, 11:21 AM   #23
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Default Re: Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Frazier and Norton having dinner together

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Originally Posted by fists of fury
"Champions forever, legends in time..." Beautiful song and a tremendous documentary.

I had to laugh a little when Ali and Frazier start arguing again, and Norton mocks Frazier's slurry speech.
Foreman, trying to be nice, tries to hide his laughter a little but fails.

It may sound a bit strange, but I get all teared up watching the DVD. Time flies by so quickly...
Considering that Muhammad Ali is always held up as exhibit A in terms of what boxing can do physically to a person, I wonder why Joe Frazier is never really talked about in the same regard. Granted, Frazier is in much better overall condition than Ali, but Frazier is in fairly bad shape as well. The guy has been "punchy" and has been slurring and stumbling over his words for many years, and not many people ever talk about Joe's physical/neurological shortcomings. It's always "Ali, Ali, Ali"! Ali is really, really bad, and Frazier is just bad. But he's damaged nonetheless! I don't know if anyone on here remembers the time when Larry Holmes, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, and Muhammad Ali all appeared on the Phil Donahue show to promote the Champions Forever video. It was a great show and I still have it on VHS tape somewhere

Anyways, the audience would ask the fighters questions, and almost everytime someone would ask Joe Frazier a question, his answers wouldn't match the question being asked of him! LOL.....Or, he'd get lost halfway through his response and basically forget what he was trying to say! And that was way back in 1989! If you watch some of Joe's interviews on Youtube! that are more current, his speech and thought processess are so bad that It makes me want to open up his head and spray some WD-40 on his internal circuitry to help him along!

I know these guys made millions and they had all of the fame and fortune in the world, but I have to ask myself would I want to trade my brain health and mentality for some money and glory?
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Old 02-21-2008, 11:49 AM   #24
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Default Re: Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Frazier and Norton having dinner together

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Originally Posted by Snorlax
The cycle of heavyweight overratedness at a single table.

I don't think i can stomach it.
Yeah! I agree with you snorlax.

My pick of the best (and underrated heavyweights ever):-
  1. Hart
  2. Burns
  3. Willard
  4. Carnera
  5. Braddock
  6. Johansson
  7. Spinks (Leon)
..... snore (couldn't get to ten, fell asleep).

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Old 02-21-2008, 12:03 PM   #25
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Default Re: Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Frazier and Norton having dinner together

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Originally Posted by selfkill
I agree. Norton shouldn't have been included, even if he did give Holmes and Ali hell. They may aswell have included Shavers.
Shavers was never a world champion, was he?
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Old 02-21-2008, 12:41 PM   #26
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Default Re: Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Frazier and Norton having dinner together

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Shavers was never a world champion, was he?
Nope. Just like Quarry and Lyle: always the bridesmaid, never the bride.
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