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Old 09-24-2009, 08:36 AM   #76
walk with me
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Default Re: Applied Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

its interesting that anyone who just read teh first post called me wrong


everyone who went from page 1-3 said i made a good point
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Old 09-24-2009, 08:39 AM   #77
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Default Re: Applied Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

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Originally Posted by walk with me View Post
its interesting that anyone who just read teh first post called me wrong


everyone who went from page 1-3 said i made a good point
I can understand what you meant, WWM. You're right in a way, although the complainers are right as well. We get alot of arguments in our community over split perception. For me you're talking about the highest level, some of these other folks are speaking more generally.
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Old 09-24-2009, 08:48 AM   #78
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Default Re: Applied Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

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Originally Posted by san rafael View Post
I can understand what you meant, WWM. You're right in a way, although the complainers are right as well. We get alot of arguments in our community over split perception. For me you're talking about the highest level, some of these other folks are speaking more generally.
could be....

i just know my point is valid & makes sense... anyone calling it stupid either doesnt know the sport as well as they claim or didnt take the time to read what i was saying....

the proof is in the pudding

- every pressure fighter is a great pressure fighter more or less until they lose and when they lose they go from "Effective Agression" to horrible plodder

- the examples of guys who were top notch at this (3 or 4 atg's) never really lost until they were older so we cant even say that they never had a true instance of their pressure being "bad"


but maybe this is a 2 sided argument.... which is definitely possible.... but as long as i have an opinion.... there will only be successful & unsuccessful pressure

Edit:

so san... you think both sides have a point?
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Old 09-24-2009, 08:55 AM   #79
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Default Re: Applied Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

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Originally Posted by walk with me View Post
could be....

i just know my point is valid & makes sense... anyone calling it stupid either doesnt know the sport as well as they claim or didnt take the time to read what i was saying....

the proof is in the pudding

- every pressure fighter is a great pressure fighter more or less until they lose and when they lose they go from "Effective Agression" to horrible plodder

- the examples of guys who were top notch at this (3 or 4 atg's) never really lost until they were older so we cant even say that they never had a true instance of their pressure being "bad"


but maybe this is a 2 sided argument.... which is definitely possible.... but as long as i have an opinion.... there will only be successful & unsuccessful pressure

Edit:

so san... you think both sides have a point?
Pretty much. It just depends on how you're saying it I think. You directly alluded to fighters who have successfully applied pressure at times, and then been accused of applying unintelligent pressure at different times. For me, your argument holds water.

I can also agree with the guys who say Hatton is a good-bad example of this, but then again Hatton plowed through more than 40 guys with his style. Just because he got put to sleep by Superman and Spiderman doesn't mean... You know the rest.
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Old 09-24-2009, 09:09 AM   #80
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Default Re: Applied Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

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Originally Posted by san rafael View Post
Pretty much. It just depends on how you're saying it I think. You directly alluded to fighters who have successfully applied pressure at times, and then been accused of applying unintelligent pressure at different times. For me, your argument holds water.

I can also agree with the guys who say Hatton is a good-bad example of this, but then again Hatton plowed through more than 40 guys with his style. Just because he got put to sleep by Superman and Spiderman doesn't mean... You know the rest.

see.... I'm not as crazy as some of yall were trying to say
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Old 09-24-2009, 09:26 AM   #81
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Default Re: Applied Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

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Originally Posted by walk with me View Post
could be....

i just know my point is valid & makes sense... anyone calling it stupid either doesnt know the sport as well as they claim or didnt take the time to read what i was saying....

the proof is in the pudding

- every pressure fighter is a great pressure fighter more or less until they lose and when they lose they go from "Effective Agression" to horrible plodder

- the examples of guys who were top notch at this (3 or 4 atg's) never really lost until they were older so we cant even say that they never had a true instance of their pressure being "bad"


but maybe this is a 2 sided argument.... which is definitely possible.... but as long as i have an opinion.... there will only be successful & unsuccessful pressure

Edit:

so san... you think both sides have a point?
The only thing dont agree with is the every pressure fighter is great till they lose theory that's like saying every p4p power-puncher had power till they didn't knock a guy out its false Duran, JCC, Frazier, Armstrong etc were great pressure fighters regardless if occasionally a opponent beat them.
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Old 09-24-2009, 09:50 AM   #82
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Default Re: Applied Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

walk with me, you explain things like a true rickety hatton fan. i feel your pain. that kid was great fun.
talk about a great pressure fighter, you can see one this saturday. arreola. you heard me say it. remember that.
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Old 09-24-2009, 10:03 AM   #83
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Default Re: Applied Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

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Honestly... What The **** Is Intelligent Pressure? There Really is no such thing... either you apply pressure and have success or you apply pressure and you dont...

everyone always throws around this "intelligent pressure" term like there is some grand scheme...

when a fighter wins using pressure = intelligent pressure
when a fighter loses using pressure = bad job of applying pressure


I think the concept & the way people use this term is horrible
"intelligent pressure" = Calzaghe

"reckless pressure" = Valero
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Old 09-24-2009, 10:03 AM   #84
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Default Re: Intelligent Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

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ight...

when a elite level pressure fighter loses does that make their "applied pressure" bad because they lose? thats what i'm trying to fig out

because any time i hear about a pressure fighter losing... all the sudden they didnt use "applied pressure" properly.... when in reality i just think they fought someone better than them.... which is why i keep saying you either have successful results or you don't

No Chavez pressure fighting is A-grade and he was beaten by Pea.

Frazier could not have fought a better pressure fight than he did against Ali in the Thrilla and he lost.

Win lose or draw...Hatton and Margarito are horrible pressure fighters. They receive far too much punishment coming in.
 
Of course if you win presuring an opponent then it's effective....but it doesn't make it intelligent.
The way Froch boxes has thus far been effective...but it doesn't make it technical. It's the same thing.
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Old 09-24-2009, 10:06 AM   #85
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Default Re: Intelligent Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

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No Chavez pressure fighting is A-grade and he was beaten by Pea.

Frazier could not have fought a better pressure fight than he did against Ali in the Thrilla and he lost.

Win lose or draw...Hatton and Margarito are horrible pressure fighters. They receive far too much punishment coming in.
 
Of course if you win presuring an opponent then it's effective....but it doesn't make it intelligent.
The way Froch boxes has thus far been effective...but it doesn't make it technical. It's the same thing.
There you go... Hatton may have "plowed" through many people, but he also ate shot after shot while doing it. Eamonn Magee wrote the blueprint on beating Hatton, and forced him to box because Hatton got cracked every time he came in, and floored in the first 30 seconds of the fight wtih a counter punch.
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Old 09-24-2009, 10:22 AM   #86
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Default Re: Applied Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

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Originally Posted by san rafael View Post
Pretty much. It just depends on how you're saying it I think. You directly alluded to fighters who have successfully applied pressure at times, and then been accused of applying unintelligent pressure at different times. For me, your argument holds water.

I can also agree with the guys who say Hatton is a good-bad example of this, but then again Hatton plowed through more than 40 guys with his style. Just because he got put to sleep by Superman and Spiderman doesn't mean... You know the rest.

Hatton's pressure is effective, but neither intelligent nor technical!!!

He's basically just a come forward brute, there's no subtlety to his plan and not a lot of foot or head movement coming in!!! It's basically just charge forward and left-hook!!!

Tyson and Frazier both bobbed and weaved to great effect to get inside and if you look at the subtlety of both Duran and Chazev coming forward...tell me there's no difference to the way Hatton comes forward??

I agree it's a subjective point, but it would be like saying Wladimir has the best defence in boxing because nobody has landed a clean punch on him in years. The way he fights in defensively effective, but it isn't technical in the way Floyd's is!!!
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:14 AM   #87
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Default Re: Intelligent Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

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Originally Posted by walk with me View Post
yo stay off my dick you **** boy...

you been on my pipe since i entered this forum.... don't keep your smirk ****ing bullshit away dog honestly..


if you want to talk boxing ... lets talk boxing

if you want to hurl insults either pm me or shut the **** up

This whole thread is a ****ing joke the creater really needs to stop making random post about shit he has no idea about WWM you just started to follow this sport and this whole thread is a I wanna suck on Floyds **** thread nothing more.....

Dont hate on those who have hte balls to take risk and pressure fighters just becuase some of the fighters you like do not.... seriously I have a question do you even think before you post shit like this?
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Old 09-24-2009, 01:20 PM   #88
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Default Re: Applied Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

The OP and all the rest of us should first of all agree on the terms used to define what we mean..

Effective pressure : It can be intelligent or not.

- You can get hit all you want but still unload your own punches to tire and punish your opponent as much or more than he does to you. (Not Intelligent pressure)

- You can find ways to get inside consistently to deliver your blows while absorbing the least possible in return. (Intelligent pressure).

The end result is what determines if the pressure was good or bad (worked or not), but it doesn't define your original question of intelligent or not...that's the difference !

P.S.: Originally your main ''Thread Line'' was Intelligent Pressure not ''Applied Pressure''..
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Old 05-11-2012, 02:30 PM   #89
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Default Re: Applied Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

classic thread
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Old 05-11-2012, 02:40 PM   #90
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Default Re: Applied Pressure Is One Of The Biggest Fluke Concepts In Boxing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by walk with me View Post
Honestly... What The **** Is Intelligent Pressure? There Really is no such thing... either you apply pressure and have success or you apply pressure and you dont...

everyone always throws around this "intelligent pressure" term like there is some grand scheme...

when a fighter wins using pressure = intelligent pressure
when a fighter loses using pressure = bad job of applying pressure


I think the concept & the way people use this term is horrible
Uh, there's a big difference. Unintelligent pressure would be Ricky Hatton charging head-first, hands down in a straight line walking into punches just to get the fight in close. Intelligent pressure is working behind a good Jab and using footwork to cut the ring off and move the opponent back onto the ropes and into the corners to unleash power shots.
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