Rate these 3 in order P4P: Ward, Donaire, Martinez and EXPLAIN

megavolt · 05-13-2012, 06:57 PM

Donaire
Martinez
Ward

Donaire of all 3 has consistently shown pound for pound level accomplishment and not just ability. He demolished his way up to 122, picking up some real P4P level wins, like Montiel. People take away from him because of his performance against a "negative" fighter like Narvaez. Super bantam is his 4th weight and people are already calling him to fight the best there. That speaks volumes.

Martinez fought the massively avoided Williams to a controversial decision when both were P4P #4 and 5. Then he moved up and whooped the man at MW in Pavlik and fought Williams again, winning by brutal KO. Whooped a solid opponent in Dzinziruk. No one wants to fight him at 154. He looked a lil vulnerable in the Dzinz fight and on, but this was still at MW which is why I bumped him down but otherwise he'd be solidly on top.

Ward, while being the man to beat at 168 hasn't shown anything that shouts "P4P level" to me other than ambiguous "H2H ability" and "being the man". He didn't beat any top 10 P4P, didn't beat any top opposition at other weights. He won the super 6 but that's it. If he beats Dawson AT 175 then he might have an edge against Martinez. In fact I have Ward on a similar level as Bradley in terms of accomplishments.

Discuss.

Nonito Smoak · 05-13-2012, 07:01 PM

P4P
#4 Donaire
#5 Ward
#6 Sergio

Based on who they have beaten, how good or rated that opponent was going in, what that opponent has done since can play a role (for example, Donaire's KO of Hernan Marquez, even if at 115, looks great now that Marquez is one of the best 112 out there), how I perceive their skill set to be, the giving of credit for both a] long term dominance in a division and b] accomplishments at varying division limits.

Basically, how I believe all P4P should be judged:
The personal combination of judging resume with talent, both of which are opinions which will be unique to oneself.

janeschicken · 05-13-2012, 07:02 PM

I rank Martinez higher than Donaire simply due to activity level and the opponents he faced in that timeframe. Donaire has had too many stretches of inactivity/ mediocre opposition to give him the nod above Sexicito, in my opinion.

turbotime · 05-13-2012, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megavolt

Donaire
Martinez
Ward

Donaire of all 3 has consistently shown pound for pound level accomplishment and not just ability. He demolished his way up to 122, picking up some real P4P level wins, like Montiel. People take away from him because of his performance against a "negative" fighter like Narvaez. Super bantam is his 4th weight and people are already calling him to fight the best there. That speaks volumes.

Martinez beat Williams when both were P4P #4 and 5. By brutal KO. Then he moved up and whooped the man at MW in Pavlik and whooped a solid opponent in Dzinziruk. No one wants to fight him at 154. He looked a lil vulnerable in the Dzinz fight and on, but this was still at MW which is why I bumped him down but otherwise he'd be solidly on top.

Ward, while being the man to beat at 168 hasn't shown anything other than ambiguous "H2H ability" and "being the man" that shouts "P4P level" to me. He didn't beat any top 10 P4P, didn't beat any top opposition at other weights. He won the super 6 but that's it. If he beats Dawson AT 175 then he might have an edge against Martinez. In fact I have Ward on a similar level as Bradley in terms of accomplishments.

Discuss.

I agree with this. People forgot how big the Darchinyan KO was for Nonito, no one gave him a chance in that fight and he one punched him.

Didn't Martinez KTFO of Williams after he already beat Pavlik though? Or am I getting my dates wrong?

megavolt · 05-13-2012, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nonito Smoak

P4P
#4 Donaire
#5 Ward
#6 Sergio

Based on who they have beaten, how good or rated that opponent was going in, what that opponent has done since can play a role (for example, Donaire's KO of Hernan Marquez, even if at 115, looks great now that Marquez is one of the best 112 out there), how I perceive their skill set to be, the giving of credit for both a] long term dominance in a division and b] accomplishments at varying division limits.

Basically, how I believe all P4P should be judged:
The personal combination of judging resume with talent, both of which are opinions which will be unique to oneself.

All's fair in matters of opinion, what I highlighted there though can go multiple ways though. A fighter can do very poorly after being beaten because of the nature he was beaten/brutalized.

megavolt · 05-13-2012, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbotime

I agree with this. People forgot how big the Darchinyan KO was for Nonito, no one gave him a chance in that fight and he one punched him.

Didn't Martinez KTFO of Williams after he already beat Pavlik though? Or am I getting my dates wrong?

Yeah no you're right I mixed up the dates ill edit it

Arranmcl · 05-13-2012, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janeschicken

I rank Martinez higher than Donaire simply due to activity level and the opponents he faced in that timeframe. Donaire has had too many stretches of inactivity/ mediocre opposition to give him the nod above Sexicito, in my opinion.

Donaires resume >> Martinez' resume.

Arranmcl · 05-13-2012, 07:07 PM

..

turbotime · 05-13-2012, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arranmcl

Donaires resume >> Martinez' resume.

Yeah, Martinez is good, but I think he gets a bit overhyped just because people think he can "Challenge" Mayweather and Pacquiao.

But really, wins over Pavlik who just got smacked all over by Hopkins, and a severely overrated Williams makes it pretty hard to rank him any higher than top 5 or 6.

Leonit · 05-13-2012, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbotime

Yeah, Martinez is good, but I think he gets a bit overhyped just because people think he can "Challenge" Mayweather and Pacquiao.

But really, wins over Pavlik who just got smacked all over by Hopkins, and a severely overrated Williams makes it pretty hard to rank him any higher than top 5 or 6.

Yeah but don't forget he KOed Cintron who was ranked number one at 154 after that he beat Williams who was I think p4p top 5 and beat Pavlik who was the number one rated MW. For me is really hard to rate those 3. They all have great accomplishments. Out of the three Ward and Sexy are more active but it seems that Donaire has the better resume and signature wins. Veryyy though to rate the Montiel and Vic victories are great but Donaire hasn't looked that great recently...

megavolt · 05-13-2012, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonit

Yeah but don't forget he KOed Cintron who was ranked number one at 154 after that he beat Williams who was I think p4p top 5 and beat Pavlik who was the number one rated MW. For me is really hard to rate those 3. They all have great accomplishments. Out of the three Ward and Sexy are more active but it seems that Donaire has the better resume and signature wins. Veryyy though to rate the Montiel and Vic victories are great but Donaire hasn't looked that great recently...

Donaire has fought 3 times since the beginning of last year compared to Ward's twice, and Martinez' 3 times. He's the only one of the 3 to currently have a fight scheduled. He looked "lackluster" in a total shutout against Narvaez. He moved up again, took on a top 5 at 122 in Vazquez and whooped him with a hurt hand. (looked a lil vulnerable).

I think Ward is a clear bottom, and Donaire a clear top atm.

Leonit · 05-13-2012, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megavolt

Donaire has fought 3 times since the beginning of last year compared to Ward's twice, and Martinez' 3 times. He's the only one of the 3 to currently have a fight scheduled. He looked "lackluster" in a total shutout against Narvaez. He moved up again, took on a top 5 at 122 in Vazquez and whooped him with a hurt hand. (looked a lil vulnerable).

I think Ward is a clear bottom, and Donaire a clear top atm.

I had the Vazquez fight pretty close before the knock down on my card. That said Vazquez is not a bum and brought his A game to this fight

purephase · 05-13-2012, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megavolt

Donaire has fought 3 times since the beginning of last year compared to Ward's twice, and Martinez' 3 times. He's the only one of the 3 to currently have a fight scheduled. He looked "lackluster" in a total shutout against Narvaez. He moved up again, took on a top 5 at 122 in Vazquez and whooped him with a hurt hand. (looked a lil vulnerable).

I think Ward is a clear bottom, and Donaire a clear top atm.

How in the world was Vazquez top 5 at 122? I mean I know it's a weak division but he had just been stopped by Arce and was never regarded as much more than a prospect.

janeschicken · 05-13-2012, 08:16 PM

Donaire may have a fight scheduled, but if it really is Mijares, I'm sorry but that is a freaking joke. There are many more worthy opponents for him.

megavolt · 05-13-2012, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janeschicken

Donaire may have a fight scheduled, but if it really is Mijares, I'm sorry but that is a freaking joke. There are many more worthy opponents for him.

Yeah i know

it was just a response to this activity level claim

05-13-2012, 06:57 PM	#1
megavolt Constantly Shadowboxing East Side Guru Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,973 vCash: 75	Rate these 3 in order P4P: Ward, Donaire, Martinez and EXPLAIN Donaire Martinez Ward Donaire of all 3 has consistently shown pound for pound level accomplishment and not just ability. He demolished his way up to 122, picking up some real P4P level wins, like Montiel. People take away from him because of his performance against a "negative" fighter like Narvaez. Super bantam is his 4th weight and people are already calling him to fight the best there. That speaks volumes. Martinez fought the massively avoided Williams to a controversial decision when both were P4P #4 and 5. Then he moved up and whooped the man at MW in Pavlik and fought Williams again, winning by brutal KO. Whooped a solid opponent in Dzinziruk. No one wants to fight him at 154. He looked a lil vulnerable in the Dzinz fight and on, but this was still at MW which is why I bumped him down but otherwise he'd be solidly on top. Ward, while being the man to beat at 168 hasn't shown anything that shouts "P4P level" to me other than ambiguous "H2H ability" and "being the man". He didn't beat any top 10 P4P, didn't beat any top opposition at other weights. He won the super 6 but that's it. If he beats Dawson AT 175 then he might have an edge against Martinez. In fact I have Ward on a similar level as Bradley in terms of accomplishments. Discuss. Last edited by megavolt; 05-13-2012 at 10:19 PM.
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05-13-2012, 07:01 PM	#2
Nonito Smoak Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Washington State, USA Posts: 9,242 vCash: 807	Re: Rate these 3 in order P4P: Ward, Donaire, Martinez and EXPLAIN P4P #4 Donaire #5 Ward #6 Sergio Based on who they have beaten, how good or rated that opponent was going in, what that opponent has done since can play a role (for example, Donaire's KO of Hernan Marquez, even if at 115, looks great now that Marquez is one of the best 112 out there), how I perceive their skill set to be, the giving of credit for both a] long term dominance in a division and b] accomplishments at varying division limits. Basically, how I believe all P4P should be judged: The personal combination of judging resume with talent, both of which are opinions which will be unique to oneself.
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05-13-2012, 07:02 PM	#3
janeschicken hard work! deadicayshin! East Side VIP Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 10,859 vCash: 1442	Re: Rate these 3 in order P4P: Ward, Donaire, Martinez and EXPLAIN I rank Martinez higher than Donaire simply due to activity level and the opponents he faced in that timeframe. Donaire has had too many stretches of inactivity/ mediocre opposition to give him the nod above Sexicito, in my opinion.
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05-13-2012, 07:07 PM	#8
Arranmcl Arran ESB Addict Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Scotland. Posts: 1,900 vCash: 500	Re: Rate these 3 in order P4P: Ward, Donaire, Martinez and EXPLAIN ..
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05-13-2012, 08:16 PM	#14
janeschicken hard work! deadicayshin! East Side VIP Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 10,859 vCash: 1442	Re: Rate these 3 in order P4P: Ward, Donaire, Martinez and EXPLAIN Donaire may have a fight scheduled, but if it really is Mijares, I'm sorry but that is a freaking joke. There are many more worthy opponents for him.
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