My ATG top 3 in each division

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Correct me if I did some mistake about weight please.....

HW
Fedor Emialianenko
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
Mirko Cro Cop

LHW
Liddell
Shogun
Wanderlei Silva


MW
Anderson Silva
Dan Henderson
Murilo Bustamante (I really don´t know about this pick, I just don´t see the problem to consider Murilo greater than Franklin, I´ll stay with Murilo here)

WW
George St Pierre
Matt Hughes
Pat Miletich (I am bit unconfortable with this pick)

LW
BJ Penn
Gomi
Frankie Edgar

FW
Jose Aldo
Urijah Faber
Mike Brown

BW
Dominick Cruz
Miguel Torres
Joseph Benavidez

FW
Yashuhriro Urushitani
Mamoru Yamaguchi
Jussier Formiga or McCall
I don´t know tbh......actually I need to watch more carefully fights of Yamaguchi....

[Vargas_EFC]

I certainly would not have Sherk no.3 WW

[Stoo]

Originally Posted by AB100

I think it's safe to say he'd beat Babalu now and another Hendo fight is 50/50.

He'd never beat Jones but that's not a knock on him as no one can at the moment.

If we take Jon Jones out as he is still a newbie....... Shogun's gotta be vying for no1 no doubt..... personally i'd say about no 2 or 3

Yeah Id agree with that. Dont think he'll beat JJ, but doubt he'll make the same mistake with the H-Bomb again. Id favour him slightly in a rematch with Hendo, but who knows with these two

And I stated earlier, if Jones beats Hendo then he'll be number 1 imo. And if Hendo beats Jones, then he'll be number one too. He's in the top 5 already in my list (left hom out of the top 3 by a cunts hair), adding a UFC strap to the PRIDE and Strikeforce belts will be a unique achievement and possibly cement his GOAT status over Fedor, GSP and Anderson

[Stoo]

Originally Posted by Vargas_EFC

I certainly would not have Sherk no.3 WW

Who takes his place?

[Stoo]

Originally Posted by jimmie

WW
George St Pierre
Matt Hughes
Nick Diaz

Diaz at 3 fella? Have a hard time agreeing with that personally

[afterglow]

To the Shogun thing.

He had just had ACL injury coming into the Forrest fight, and was comming off of more surgery, and a very long layoff when he fought Coleman.

Considering the cirumstances, he obviously didn't take Forrest seriously, and paid for it dearly. Tho he fixed that in the rematch.

The Coleman fight is one you gotta give him a little leway in. Yes, he was fighting an old shot fighter, but Shogun was rusty as hell and didn't have an ounce of cardio in him.

He showed in the next fight against Chuck what he would look like without the rust.


What Shogun did in 2005 alone, was enough to make him a legend. But he topped that by comming back from the Forrest loss, and 2 knee surgeries to beat Machida and win the LHW title.

He also beat Machida with an injured knee.


The guys he beat...

Rampage rape.
Arona KTFO
Reem 2x.
Machida KTFO.....tho it should be two wins IMO.
Forrest KTFO.
Chuck KTFO.....sure he was older but he looked just fine till he got sparked.
Beat LIl Nog in an epic fight.

To me, that is as good as you can get at LHW.

[afterglow]

Originally Posted by Stoo

Diaz at 3 fella? Have a hard time agreeing with that personally

Diaz hasn't done shit at WW other than beat up BJ.

His biggest win is over a much smaller Gomi at 160.

[Stoo]

Originally Posted by afterglow

The guys he beat...

Rampage rape.
Arona KTFO
Reem 2x.
Machida KTFO.....tho it should be two wins IMO.
Forrest KTFO.
Chuck KTFO.....sure he was older but he looked just fine till he got sparked.
Beat LIl Nog in an epic fight.

To me, that is as good as you can get at LHW.

The Arona and Machida wins are huge when you look at them in the context that they took place.

Ricardo had lost a close fight with Fedor and of course lost to that slam when they fought. In between he'd beaten Horn x 2, Wanderlei, Hendo, Ninja, and Sakuraba. A good run in anyone's books.

And it's easy to forget that Shogun was the 1st guy to make Lyoto look human.

[afterglow]

Originally Posted by Stoo

The Arona and Machida wins are huge when you look at them in the context that they took place.

Ricardo had lost a close fight with Fedor and of course lost to that slam when they fought. In between he'd beaten Horn x 2, Wanderlei, Hendo, Ninja, and Sakuraba. A good run in anyone's books.

What he did to Arona was legendary.

He treated him like a peice of shit after already fighting once.

Shogun was in the zone.

But people remember him losing to Jones, so that automatically makes him dogshit, while it makes Jones the best ever.

And it's easy to forget that Shogun was the 1st guy to make Lyoto look human.

And also the first guy to make him get sleepy.

[afterglow]

Originally Posted by AB100

If Hendo pulls out a massive KO of Jones he must surely be no1 atg not just LHW but P4P.

Don't see it happening tho........ i think he's already P4P no1 toughest atg

Him and Big Nog are 1A and 1B in toughness.

[StillWill]

KID Yamamoto > Faber, homie

Best 145 lber in the world for the longest time plus he went to 155 and wrecked some shit

[Stoo]

I did consider Kid, but I dont think he'd beat anyone in my top 3. Hatsu edged him out for longevity, Uriah has a better streak of wins and Aldo is Aldo

[Haggis McJackass]

See, this is exactly what I mean about Shogun fans making excuse after excuse after excuse.

Originally Posted by afterglow

He had just had ACL injury coming into the Forrest fight, and was comming off of more surgery, and a very long layoff when he fought Coleman.

He was fit and healthy enough to step into the cage, wasn't he?

And Coleman was still a one-dimensional 44 year old who hadn't fought in more than 2 years, wasn't he?

Bad performances from Shogun. Utterly dismissed and handwaved away as irrelevant.

And if we're going to be talking injuries, then Forrest injured his shoulder before the first bout, aggravated it during the match, and had major surgery on it after the fight. And he still DOMINATED Shogun and submitted him, injury and all.

Originally Posted by afterglow

Considering the cirumstances, he obviously didn't take Forrest seriously, and paid for it dearly. Tho he fixed that in the rematch.

Another excuse. "Didn't take Forrest seriously."

And he didn't "fix" anything in the rematch. Forrest's wife was going into labour with his first child as he was fighting, and Forrest knew it. That rematch means little at best for Shogun.

Originally Posted by afterglow

The Coleman fight is one you gotta give him a little leway in. Yes, he was fighting an old shot fighter, but Shogun was rusty as hell and didn't have an ounce of cardio in him.

As you have to give him leeway in ALL his losses and under-par performances, it seems.

Originally Posted by afterglow

He showed in the next fight against Chuck what he would look like without the rust.

Sure, he won and looked good, no excuses needed.

Originally Posted by afterglow

What Shogun did in 2005 alone, was enough to make him a legend. But he topped that by comming back from the Forrest loss, and 2 knee surgeries to beat Machida and win the LHW title.

Yep, fantastic work no doubt. But is it enough to make him the LHW #1 ATG? Especially when the young up-and-comer brutalized him with such incredible ease?

Originally Posted by afterglow

He also beat Machida with an injured knee.


The guys he beat...

Rampage rape.
Arona KTFO
Reem 2x.
Machida KTFO.....tho it should be two wins IMO.
Forrest KTFO.
Chuck KTFO.....sure he was older but he looked just fine till he got sparked.
Beat LIl Nog in an epic fight.

To me, that is as good as you can get at LHW.

I agree he won both Machida fights, and they are very solid wins.

But Forrest got the better of him over 2 fights. And Chuck was past it and could no longer take the punishment that his style demanded he be able to handle.

Plus he lost a 5 round decision to a 40 year old blown-up middleweight. A p4p ATG for sure, probably top-5, but the 29 year old #1 ATG LHW should not have lost to Hendo. I mean, do you picture Henderson being at all competitive with Jones?

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Originally Posted by Stoo

I did consider Kid, but I dont think he'd beat anyone in my top 3. Hatsu edged him out for longevity, Uriah has a better streak of wins and Aldo is Aldo

How about my pick for the number 3 at WW ? Pat Miletich.

[Matt Ldn]

Originally Posted by Stoo

Diaz at 3 fella? Have a hard time agreeing with that personally

Definitely not