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Old 05-24-2012, 01:11 PM   #31
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr. vs Dawid Kostecki

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Originally Posted by Player3 View Post
Remember when Steve Collins was offered 3 millions dollars to fight Jones, which was WAY more than he was worth? OF COURSE YOU DON'T! Talk is cheap. When time came to put his name on the contract, he was nowhere to be found, and became mysteriously and frequently "injured" all of a sudden.

Also, remember everytime he fought an elite fighter at the MAJOR LEAGUE level of boxing in the U.S. HE LOST. Failing to adaquately make a name for himself. Collins was just as unknown in the U.S. as half the fighters Jones had fought at Light Heavyweight, and it was larely due to his own failings to rise above the minor league Euro-level of boxing, like many of his European contemparies at the time.

And this has what to do with Jones?

Yes. The ones that are lacking a credible author.

Oh, gee. I don't know. Just some guy that would go on to dominate every single fighter he faced at Middleweight for the next decade plus. Be one of two men over the past 30 years to completely clean out a division from top to bottom. And never be handed a clear, descisive loss (outside of his fight with great Roy Jones of course ). But other than that, just some loser i guess.


He had ate his way out of those divisions a couple years earlier actually, and walked around at 200+ lbs. and were still putting on CLINICS and remained undefeated against elite opposition. Funny how he didn't look slow and sluggish as he was knocking out top shelf opposition earlier in the year, in the same weight division. He looked slow and sluggish because he was facing Roy Jones, like everybody did.




Yes. And message board revisionists will be saying the same thing about Erdei in 20 years.

His PPV figures better than DM's. Who couldn't sell PPV at all.

False. If you add up DM's entire career earnings. It wouldn'tamount to what Roy earned just from 94-2000.

Actually, it reappeared around 2001/2002. And Roy won it by beating the #3 guy in the division because the #2 guy (DM) refused to face him, while simultaneously feasting on unranked tomato cans and going life and death with Roy Jones leftovers, while Roy was beating mostly top 5 ranked light heavyweights.

Yes. He was the man at Light Heavyweight. Just like Zsolt Erdei adhered to the exact same protocol and currently IS the man at light heavyweight. Dawson, Hopkins, Pascal, Tarver, Johnson & Calzaghe were nothing but a bunch of illegitimate paper trinket holding duckers of Erdei, THE MAN @ Light Heavyweight.


So you think Hopkins was the same fighter when he fought Jones, as he was when he beat Trinidad?

Prime Toney also lost to Griffin (x2), Drake Thadzi and won a gift decision over Dave Tiberi. If you don't think Toney was out of shape and drained in that fight, then you clearly haven't seen it.

Jones was caught with anabolic steroids in his system the first time he was tested.

Jones' PPV numbers were terrible

Jones never cleared out a single division

He cherry picked paper titles from the weakest belt holders

MW - vacant title
SMW - Didn't face Benn or Eubank
LHW - won vacant titles and never fought DM, who was wrongly stripped of the belts Roy was winning, and beat Virgil Hill before Roy.
HW - Beat John Ruiz The actual champion was Lennox Lewis.

The argument of he beat X fighter better is irrelevant.
Mayweather SD12 DLH
Mayweather TKO 10 Hatton
Mayweather UD12 Cotto

Pacquiao TKO8 DLH
Pacquiao KO2 Hatton
Pacquiao TKO12 Cotto

Mayweather > Pacquaio

If they ever meet, Mayweather beats Pacquiao.
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Old 05-24-2012, 01:20 PM   #32
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr. vs Dawid Kostecki

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So you think Hopkins was the same fighter when he fought Jones, as he was when he beat Trinidad?

Prime Toney also lost to Griffin (x2), Drake Thadzi and won a gift decision over Dave Tiberi. If you don't think Toney was out of shape and drained in that fight, then you clearly haven't seen it.

Jones was caught with anabolic steroids in his system the first time he was tested.

Jones' PPV numbers were terrible

Jones never cleared out a single division

He cherry picked paper titles from the weakest belt holders

MW - vacant title
SMW - Didn't face Benn or Eubank
LHW - won vacant titles and never fought DM, who was wrongly stripped of the belts Roy was winning, and beat Virgil Hill before Roy.
HW - Beat John Ruiz The actual champion was Lennox Lewis.

The argument of he beat X fighter better is irrelevant.
Mayweather SD12 DLH
Mayweather TKO 10 Hatton
Mayweather UD12 Cotto

Pacquiao TKO8 DLH
Pacquiao KO2 Hatton
Pacquiao TKO12 Cotto

Mayweather > Pacquaio

If they ever meet, Mayweather beats Pacquiao.

You really comparing a one dimesnional fighter in Tito to the likes of Roy ?

The prime Toney who faced Jones was undefeated when he fought him ..

And you honestly think that was the first time he was tested in the Hall fight ? So what he wasn't tested in the Olympics or his pro debuet

Jones became Undisputed Light Heavy Weight Champ twice ..If thats not the closet thing to cleaning out a division I don't know what it is ..

And cherry picked weak belt holders McCallum ,Johnson and Devalle were all weak

An the belts he won were off other fighters ..Man KOA I thought you knew this already ..So sad you avoid the facts ..One was DM's mando in Devalle the other belt was fought for by anothe mando that Dm wanted nothing to do with ..This is why he kept the WBO and made a killing fighting in Germany ..
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Old 05-24-2012, 01:32 PM   #33
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr. vs Dawid Kostecki

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You really comparing a one dimesnional fighter in Tito to the likes of Roy ?

The prime Toney who faced Jones was undefeated when he fought him ..

And you honestly think that was the first time he was tested in the Hall fight ? So what he wasn't tested in the Olympics or his pro debuet

Jones became Undisputed Light Heavy Weight Champ twice ..If thats not the closet thing to cleaning out a division I don't know what it is ..

And cherry picked weak belt holders McCallum ,Johnson and Devalle were all weak

An the belts he won were off other fighters ..Man KOA I thought you knew this already ..So sad you avoid the facts ..One was DM's mando in Devalle the other belt was fought for by anothe mando that Dm wanted nothing to do with ..This is why he kept the WBO and made a killing fighting in Germany ..


I never compared Trinidad to Roy. Answer the question, do you think the Hopkins who fought in 94, was the same as the Hopkins who beat Trinidad in 2001?


Toney was also undefeated when Dave Tiberi arguably beat him

I can't put a timescale on it, no-one can. It's possible that it was for one fight, it was possible he'd been doing it for 3 years, possibly more, possibly less. I just wonder, for those who think it was once, why Richard Hall??

He never beat the best or next best guy in the LHW division. That would be like Ray Leonard never fighting Thomas Hearns, and claiming he cleaned out the division. Or Joe Frazier never fighting Ali, and claiming he cleaned out the division. You know this full well. Jones was undoubtedly the man, and true LHW Champion when beat Tarver though, I'll give you that.

Mccallum was shot, Johnson was a good fighter, but he lost to the best guys he faced. Everyone knows the most legit opponent, and best champion for Roy to face at LHW was DM (Not that I'm making DM out to be a Top 10 ATG or anything, but he was the best guy for Roy to fight at LHW). It's ironic because in my opinion, Roy would have beaten DM, he just didn't want to take a chance. If Roy travelled to Germany to fight DM, he would get so much more respect

Devalle?

Do you really want to dig up the issue of the titles DM was stripped off? It was discussed to death here, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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Old 05-24-2012, 01:46 PM   #34
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr. vs Dawid Kostecki

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I never compared Trinidad to Roy. Answer the question, do you think the Hopkins who fought in 94, was the same as the Hopkins who beat Trinidad in 2001?


Toney was also undefeated when Dave Tiberi arguably beat him

I can't put a timescale on it, no-one can. It's possible that it was for one fight, it was possible he'd been doing it for 3 years, possibly more, possibly less. I just wonder, for those who think it was once, why Richard Hall??

He never beat the best or next best guy in the LHW division. That would be like Ray Leonard never fighting Thomas Hearns, and claiming he cleaned out the division. Or Joe Frazier never fighting Ali, and claiming he cleaned out the division. You know this full well. Jones was undoubtedly the man, and true LHW Champion when beat Tarver though, I'll give you that.

Mccallum was shot, Johnson was a good fighter, but he lost to the best guys he faced. Everyone knows the most legit opponent, and best champion for Roy to face at LHW was DM (Not that I'm making DM out to be a Top 10 ATG or anything, but he was the best guy for Roy to fight at LHW). It's ironic because in my opinion, Roy would have beaten DM, he just didn't want to take a chance. If Roy travelled to Germany to fight DM, he would get so much more respect

Devalle?

Do you really want to dig up the issue of the titles DM was stripped off? It was discussed to death here, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Look at who Hopkins lost too as his career went on ..His style never changed and he didn't lose a fight for 10 yrs after his loss to Jones ..So was he the same fighter style wise yes ..This is why Hopkins always looked good against plodders but lost to pure boxers :Taylor ,Calzaghe ,Jones .

And who was the best guy at lt heavy ? By all accounts Roy was the best guy in the divsion ..

And regardless if you think Toney loss to Tiberi he still was undefeated when he fought Jones ..

And you can laugh at Devalle but he wasn't a slouch and Dm wanted nothing to do with him ..

And you don't have to bring up as to how DM was stripped I have already schoold the lot of you on the matter

And get off that Germany shit no one wants to fight in Germany .Froch said he would have left the S6 if he would have had to fight double A in Germany ..Bute in the documentary also said he would have not have fought the Cobra in Germany either ..Its known to be a crooked place !
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Old 05-24-2012, 01:50 PM   #35
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr. vs Dawid Kostecki

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So you think Hopkins was the same fighter when he fought Jones, as he was when he beat Trinidad?
More or less. Not quite as refined. But in his Physical prime. Without a doubt. Jones was closer to his prime, that's for sure.

Quote:
Prime Toney also lost to Griffin (x2), Drake Thadzi and won a gift decision over Dave Tiberi. If you don't think Toney was out of shape and drained in that fight, then you clearly haven't seen it.
Prime Toney is MW/SMW. That's where he was at his sharpest, and where some greastest performances occured. And that's where Jones beat him at. Where, by all accounts, he was at his peak.

The Griffin and Thadzi fights both were questionable descisions. And anybody that fights on as hectic a schedule as Toney did, is bound to have an off night or two. Even the great Chavez Sr. had his bad nights against journeymen, with a similarly hectic schedule. What we do know is that he never had any off nights @ Super-Middleweight in the several fights he had in the division prior to fighting Roy Jones, and arguably looked better than when he fought at Middleweight. Which is why he was favored to beat Jones.


Quote:
Jones was caught with anabolic steroids in his system the first time he was tested.
And what anabolic steroid was this?

Quote:
Jones' PPV numbers were terrible
He sold several 100,000's MORE PPV's than DM ever did. FACT

Quote:
MW - Win over one of the most dominant Middleweights of all-time/top 5 ATG in the division
SMW - Beat one of the greatest fighters to ever live while he was at his peak and UNDEFEATED
LHW - Beat about 90% of the top 10 Light-Heavyweights from 96-03, best Light-Heavyweight resume since Michael Spinks
Fix'd.........


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Old 05-24-2012, 02:07 PM   #36
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr. vs Dawid Kostecki

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Look at who Hopkins lost too as his career went on ..His style never changed and he didn't lose a fight for 10 yrs after his loss to Jones ..So was he the same fighter style wise yes ..This is why Hopkins always looked good against plodders but lost to pure boxers :Taylor ,Calzaghe ,Jones .

And who was the best guy at lt heavy ? By all accounts Roy was the best guy in the divsion ..

And regardless if you think Toney loss to Tiberi he still was undefeated when he fought Jones ..

And you can laugh at Devalle but he wasn't a slouch and Dm wanted nothing to do with him ..

And you don't have to bring up as to how DM was stripped I have already schoold the lot of you on the matter

And get off that Germany shit no one wants to fight in Germany .Froch said he would have left the S6 if he would have had to fight double A in Germany ..Bute in the documentary also said he would have not have fought the Cobra in Germany either ..Its known to be a crooked place !

Good point about Hopkins, however it still stands that he was a more refined fighter, and would have been a tougher fight for Jones in 2001, it's a shame for whatever reason the rematch didn't happen.

Once again, you've ignored my point. If Leonard never fought Hearns, if Frazier never fought Ali, how could we call them legitimate champions in the divisions?

Toney in his prime lost to Griffin (x2) and Drake Thadzi officially. So if that's Jones' crowning achievement, then he can share it with these guys. That should put it into perspective.

Are you trying to glorify Devalle? You should give up on that one.

You got mauled in that thread, I imagine that's why you refuse to read through it. More importantly, DM never lost those belts in the ring, he was the true LHW Champion in that period.

David Haye gets a lot of stick on these boards, yet he was willing to travel to Germany to face Wlad and Valuev. Corruption is everywhere in boxing, look at what happened to Sturm when fought ODLH. He completely schooled him, in the last round he went southpaw and still schooled DLH. Yet Oscar got the decision...

To Player3, have a read through this thread [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

You seriously sound like a delusional fanboy. You can't have the best LHW resume since Spinks, if you won paper titles and spent your time defending them against mandatories
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:12 PM   #37
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr. vs Dawid Kostecki

KOA educating in front of a global audience of millions
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:17 PM   #38
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr. vs Dawid Kostecki

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WAAAAAAARRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOYYYY!!!!!!!!!11


Pensacola up in dis beyotch!!
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:18 PM   #39
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr. vs Dawid Kostecki

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KOA educating in front of a global audience of millions
Thanks Champ
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:19 PM   #40
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Thanks Champ
Np.
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:20 PM   #41
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr. vs Dawid Kostecki

Had Toney winning the Griffin and Thadzi fights BTW. No question he loss to Tiberi though. Interesting career he had though W or L on my cards he shot himself in the foot with his low activity.
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:24 PM   #42
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr. vs Dawid Kostecki

Let's end this ****ing charade once and for all OK? Jones NEVER beat a Lineal, Unified, or Undisputed Champion in his whole career. Those Trinket belts he had at Light Heavyweight belonged to DM who they were wrongly stripped from.

Jones was also arguably NEVER The Champion in any weight class he ever fought in. He collected vacant belts for the most part while carefully moving his way through Weight Divisions.

I don't give two shits what he woulda, shoulda, coulda done had he fought someone what we know is Reluctant Roy DIDN'T make the big fights because he was scared of getting that crystalline Glass Mandible of his shattered all over the arena.
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:32 PM   #43
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr. vs Dawid Kostecki

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Good point about Hopkins, however it still stands that he was a more refined fighter, and would have been a tougher fight for Jones in 2001, it's a shame for whatever reason the rematch didn't happen.

Once again, you've ignored my point. If Leonard never fought Hearns, if Frazier never fought Ali, how could we call them legitimate champions in the divisions?

Toney in his prime lost to Griffin (x2) and Drake Thadzi officially. So if that's Jones' crowning achievement, then he can share it with these guys. That should put it into perspective.

Are you trying to glorify Devalle? You should give up on that one.

You got mauled in that thread, I imagine that's why you refuse to read through it. More importantly, DM never lost those belts in the ring, he was the true LHW Champion in that period.

David Haye gets a lot of stick on these boards, yet he was willing to travel to Germany to face Wlad and Valuev. Corruption is everywhere in boxing, look at what happened to Sturm when fought ODLH. He completely schooled him, in the last round he went southpaw and still schooled DLH. Yet Oscar got the decision...

To Player3, have a read through this thread [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

You seriously sound like a delusional fanboy. You can't have the best LHW resume since Spinks, if you won paper titles and spent your time defending them against mandatories

Devalle beacme champ I don't have to glorify him when it was a fact ,He also lost to Hill by a controversial decision maybe you missed that fight but that was the reason he was made DM's mando ..There are certain things your missing into trying to discredit Devalle ..

And im ignoring the points on Leonard because I want to stick to this topic ..And Jones beat Toney when he was the # 3 ranked p4p fighter in the world ..If you want to discredit that win fine but the guys you mentioned beat Toney after Jones did! Toney was also the favorite going into that fight yet you still wish to ignore that Ok ..



And no one got mauled in that thread matter fact your boy went into hiding after the schooling I gave the both you so don't make shit up !

And Jones won those belts in the RING genius !

But lets not revist that,its clear where you get your facts from ..I don't want own you yet again ..I am mericful !



And what does Haye going to Gemrany have to do with anything when there have been countless boxers that refused to fight there .


Player 3 thank you for schooling these clowns yet again
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:56 PM   #44
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr. vs Dawid Kostecki

At first I was like this...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDWnMXzgeZo[/ame]


But than I realized this

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1Ay6UhettU[/ame]

The Roy Jones from rags to riches back to rags. Tragic yet compelling.

I love the disdain when Lebedev ko's jones. Like with insolence.
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Old 05-24-2012, 03:06 PM   #45
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr. vs Dawid Kostecki

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At first I was like this...

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


But than I realized this

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

The Roy Jones from rags to riches back to rags. Tragic yet compelling.

I love the disdain when Lebedev ko's jones. Like with insolence.
at the title of the video "yall musta forgot I got a glass jaw"
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