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Old 05-29-2012, 12:29 PM   #16
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Default Re: 60's Ali vs 70's Ali

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Originally Posted by Bill Butcher View Post
I haven`t read any other posts but I expect to see some agenda driven Frazier fans say Ali from FOTC would win

Ali of the Williams fight by clear decision... no HW ever caught on film would be a favourite over Muhammad Ali 1966/67 IMO.
Well I think I'd favour FOTC Frazier to beat any Ali and I'm not exactly a huge fan of Frazier. I'm sure your of the assumption that any version of Young Foreman beats Frazier so why should it be different in this case? I know the style match up isn't quite as bad for Ali comparing it to Foreman-Frazier, however it heavily favours Frazier in this match up.

On the actual topic though, 70s Ali is just that little bit slower and pays the price for it. Doesn't have anywhere near enough power to trouble 60s Ali either so I'll take 60s Ali by UD 146-139
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Old 05-29-2012, 01:09 PM   #17
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Default Re: 60's Ali vs 70's Ali

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FOTC Ali is the best version of Ali. He was bigger and stronger and while he was still very sharp he also sat down on his punches a lot more and didnt show off as much. He would win this fight 10 times out of 10 simply because he was smarter.
comedy gold
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Old 05-29-2012, 01:10 PM   #18
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Default Re: 60's Ali vs 70's Ali

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The Ali from 1964 to 1967 was the best heavyweight who ever lived IMO.
No doubt
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Old 05-29-2012, 01:20 PM   #19
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Default Re: 60's Ali vs 70's Ali

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Well I think I'd favour FOTC Frazier to beat any Ali and I'm not exactly a huge fan of Frazier. I'm sure your of the assumption that any version of Young Foreman beats Frazier so why should it be different in this case? I know the style match up isn't quite as bad for Ali comparing it to Foreman-Frazier, however it heavily favours Frazier in this match up.

On the actual topic though, 70s Ali is just that little bit slower and pays the price for it. Doesn't have anywhere near enough power to trouble 60s Ali either so I'll take 60s Ali by UD 146-139
Frazier had most trouble (even in FOTC) when Ali gave him movement & stuck the jab in his face, in all 3 fights thats were Muhammad Ali picked up the majority of his rounds... Frazier had his best moments when Ali was having rest periods & trapped in the corner or on the ropes, the 64-67 version would have far, far fewer of those trapped moments & IMO would pick Joe apart from the outside for the majority of a 12 or 15 round fight.

Joe cannot touch Ali when Ali is in full flow boxing mode, on the move & thats the 70s version I`m talking about, the 60s version had much better legs, was faster, sharper & better conditioned & those are the primary reasons that Joe did well vs Ali in the 70s because those attributes had diminished.

I don`t expect to change your opinion but all I can do is give you my opinion.
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Old 05-29-2012, 08:02 PM   #20
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Default Re: 60's Ali vs 70's Ali

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Originally Posted by tommy the hat View Post
The Ali from 1964 to 1967 was the best heavyweight who ever lived IMO.
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Old 05-30-2012, 06:53 AM   #21
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Default Re: 60's Ali vs 70's Ali

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Originally Posted by Bill Butcher View Post
Frazier had most trouble (even in FOTC) when Ali gave him movement & stuck the jab in his face, in all 3 fights thats were Muhammad Ali picked up the majority of his rounds... Frazier had his best moments when Ali was having rest periods & trapped in the corner or on the ropes, the 64-67 version would have far, far fewer of those trapped moments & IMO would pick Joe apart from the outside for the majority of a 12 or 15 round fight.

Joe cannot touch Ali when Ali is in full flow boxing mode, on the move & thats the 70s version I`m talking about, the 60s version had much better legs, was faster, sharper & better conditioned & those are the primary reasons that Joe did well vs Ali in the 70s because those attributes had diminished.

I don`t expect to change your opinion but all I can do is give you my opinion.
I realise that FOTC Ali wasn't as good as 60s Ali however your acting as if there to completely different fighters. Ali in the 60s was sharper and faster, but their attributes are not that far apart. Ali moved well against frazier for the majority of the fight and Frazier still took rounds
when he was doing so (I think I had it 10-5 Frazier) Also consider the knockdown in the 15th cementing Frazier's dominance that night. With the ****iness Ali had in the 60s I personally think Frazier has a good chance to knock him out (cooper may well have done without the smelling salts). Also theirs the argument that Frazier wasn't actually at his best in FOTC. He was never quite as good as he was. (IMO) after he broke his ankle in 1970 and I'm pretty sure he damaged his knee at the same time.

Id also rate 70s Ali ability to take a punch over 60s Ali. May have been the dynamics of his weight. Like you said he wasn't as light on his feet so he may have had a bit more weight on his legs. Not saying 60s Ali against Foreman would get caught with anywhere near the same number as shots as 70s Ali, but if he were to I can't see him lasting over 6 rounds with the rope a dope tactic.

I also like 79-81 Holmes over 64-67 Ali, penny for your thoughts on this match up?
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:10 AM   #22
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Default Re: 60's Ali vs 70's Ali

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Originally Posted by Bill Butcher View Post
I haven`t read any other posts but I expect to see some agenda driven Frazier fans say Ali from FOTC would win

Ali of the Williams fight by clear decision... no HW ever caught on film would be a favourite over Muhammad Ali 1966/67 IMO.

Frazier once said that Ali's best performance was in the FOTC. Nothing self indulgent about that,is there ?
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