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Old 06-02-2012, 03:13 PM   #16
Braindamage
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Default Re: what's more impressive benitez champion @17 or tyson champion @20?

oibighead~ I'm older than you think. I was in my 20's when Tyson was in his hayday. For me all the hoopla he got was way too much for who he beat. He was , in my opinion a bully. He never had to dig deep because he beat guys that were beneath him skills wises or he lost to the guys who didn't give in to him and hit him back. I can appreciate his physical gifts and the fact he won the title at such a young age but, to say he's one of the greatest to step in the ring, noway!
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Old 06-02-2012, 03:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: what's more impressive benitez champion @17 or tyson champion @20?

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Originally Posted by Braindamage View Post
For all the money and acalades Tyson got ,who did he beat? The dude was way overrated! Aside from Spinks who was a blown up LHW and an old Holmes, who else can you say was his equal? He lost to a journey man in Douglas ,in his prime. Name one other ATG that lost to a guy like Douglas in their prime. Perhaps there are some but at this moment I can't think of one. Also let me remind you ,that my boxing knowledge isn't as deep as many of you on his sight. So if I am wrong please correct me. I not only come on this sight to talk about boxing , i come here to learn as well.
I'm not going to say I'm completely disagreeing with you but I do think you need to look at some things:


Aside from Tyson not being fully prepared to fight Douglas and on the decline (which is Tyson's fault and goes against his legacy)...Tyson was still considered a "small" HW in his day at 5'11, 215 pounds. Douglas was 6'4, 230 pounds, with a long reach, and very athletic (when in shape). He had some motivational issues as well. but when motivated, was quite good. Lesson one: A fighter must be prepared to fight and it starts with motivation.

Buster was also good enough to beat McCall who would later go on to Knockout out future ATG/HOF Champion Lennox Lewis (who would also lose to Rahman by KO).

Listen to this interview with Oliver McCall

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGMosai4brY[/ame]



Wlad also lost to guys like Purrity, Sanders, and Brewster and he, unlike Tyson, and just like Lewis, was bigger than his opponents and always in shape. But maybe he wasn't 100% at his best technically but again...that tells you some things you need to know about boxing...you must train for it at all times. You slip up just a bit, and aren't training to improve, you put yourself at a disadvantage.

There is a lot more on all of this with upsets.

The other thing is this: Spinks was a LH/HOF/ATG, true, but he was also a big LH who was able to move up and defeat the undefeated, future HOF/ATG HW Champion of the World Larry Holmes. That proved his worth as a HW over 200+ pounds.
Now rewind history. Go back to Rocky Marciano who fought and struggled with a past prime LH Ezzard Charles in their first fight. As well as others around that size. However, since Rocky wasn't that big either it doesn't quite get the same power but it does say something: Tyson, when handed a LH/ATG (if that is what we are labeling Spinks), did what to him?
And then compare that to what Marciano did to his.
If Rocky can get credit for what he did to LH, why not Tyson?

I think Tyson is overrated and underrated in certain things and depending how people are talking about him.
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Old 06-02-2012, 03:21 PM   #18
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Default Re: what's more impressive benitez champion @17 or tyson champion @20?

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Originally Posted by Braindamage View Post
oibighead~ I'm older than you think. I was in my 20's when Tyson was in his hayday. For me all the hoopla he got was way too much for who he beat. He was , in my opinion a bully. He never had to dig deep because he beat guys that were beneath him skills wises or he lost to the guys who didn't give in to him and hit him back. I can appreciate his physical gifts and the fact he won the title at such a young age but, to say he's one of the greatest to step in the ring, noway!
And somehow Ruddock lost twice to him despite not being scared, bigger than him, skilled, and fought him back landing bombs on Tyson. All that with Tyson having declined skill-set at the time and the "invincibility" card was gone. As well as others before who weren't scared.

Bully? Stop believing in this bullshit myth. This whole nonsense that if you stand up to him, punch him back that he will fold is complete bullshit. At least it was pre-prison. He was kinda shit post-prison. But anyway, look at the Ruddock fights as being the best example because this was post-Douglas and post-Rooney and he was fighting a big Man with power that took it to him. And he was landing bombs on Tyson. Even hurt him. And Tyson still came back and won.
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Old 06-02-2012, 04:23 PM   #19
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Default Re: what's more impressive benitez champion @17 or tyson champion @20?

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Benitez is more impressive, but Tyson was the world heavyweight champion of the world and being an American, this comes with alot more glamour and fame
Benitez has American citizenship
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Old 06-02-2012, 04:28 PM   #20
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Default Re: what's more impressive benitez champion @17 or tyson champion @20?

Benitez without a doubt. One of the most underrated and unspoken fighters in any era of boxing. The guy had skills in a every area of boxing, very rarely when you could see that. Had power, could brawl, could box, amazing defense, could talk, the guy had it all.
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Old 06-02-2012, 04:28 PM   #21
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Default Re: what's more impressive benitez champion @17 or tyson champion @20?

Both of them are excellent excellent accomplishments, however I benetiz beating a grown ass man at 17 with finesse and skill is awesome.
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Old 06-02-2012, 04:32 PM   #22
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Default Re: what's more impressive benitez champion @17 or tyson champion @20?

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Originally Posted by Braindamage View Post
oibighead~ I'm older than you think. I was in my 20's when Tyson was in his hayday. For me all the hoopla he got was way too much for who he beat. He was , in my opinion a bully. He never had to dig deep because he beat guys that were beneath him skills wises or he lost to the guys who didn't give in to him and hit him back. I can appreciate his physical gifts and the fact he won the title at such a young age but, to say he's one of the greatest to step in the ring, noway!
Fair enough, I can respect your opinion on that.
His opposition wasn't the greatest, but you can only beat who is put in front of you

Out of curiosity, who during his prime would you have considered a step up in opposition from which he faced?
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Old 06-02-2012, 04:34 PM   #23
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Default Re: what's more impressive benitez champion @17 or tyson champion @20?

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Benitez has American citizenship
An American World Heavy Weight Champion

This is the pinacle in the sport, especially for the mainstream audience
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Old 06-02-2012, 04:39 PM   #24
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Default Re: what's more impressive benitez champion @17 or tyson champion @20?

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An American World Heavy Weight Champion

This is the pinacle in the sport, especially for the mainstream audience
Pressure wise, it may have been Tyson. But damn...17 years old and winning a World title in a division where there tends to be more skill is impressive.

Plus, at 20, although still not matured mentally, Tyson looked like a damn 28 year old with 5 kids already.

This is Still impressive nonetheless.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCIC5ddjGP4&hd=1[/ame]
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Old 06-02-2012, 04:47 PM   #25
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Default Re: what's more impressive benitez champion @17 or tyson champion @20?

i remember leonard saying in an interview to promote his book with sky sports that it really should be the fab 5 leonard, hearns, hagler, benitez. i think this is where i heard him say it. in any case it's an excellent interview.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HynS7Q5MYE[/ame]
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