71 Ali vs Marciano

[he grant]

Originally Posted by Claus Holmen

You can´t compare Marciano to Frazier. Frazier took a better punch, had a magnificent left-hook and he weighed 20 punds more than Marciano.
Ali was not well prepared for Frazier on march 8, 1971. Frazier was in his best shape ever.
Ezzard Charles was Marcianos most competetive opponent during his reign. Charles - past his prime and 20 pounds lighter than Ali - gave Marciano all he could handle.
I think Ali would have outboxed Marciano forcing the referee to stop the fight due to a bruised Marciano bleeding from cuts.
I like Marciano - but I don´t rate him high on my list of the best heavyweight champions.

Oh boy ... just wait until the Rockynuts (SQ, Mongoose and Bummy) read this ...

[SuzieQ49]

Frazier took a better punch

michael bruce? oscar bonavena?

[SuzieQ49]

Originally Posted by he grant

Oh boy ... just wait until the Rockynuts (SQ, Mongoose and Bummy) read this ...

I thought you said quote "I love Marciano"

[he grant]

Originally Posted by SuzieQ49

I thought you said quote "I love Marciano"

You just showed, again, that you don't know the difference between being a fan and a fanatic. You have zero objectivity when it comes to your favorites .. it's black and white ...

[SuzieQ49]

Originally Posted by he grant

You just showed, again, that you don't know the difference between being a fan and a fanatic. You have zero objectivity when it comes to your favorites .. it's black and white ...

Do you even know who my favorites are? Name my top 5

[Bummy Davis]

Even Frazier said there were 2 fighters that he could not beat Louis and Marciano, Ali and Holmes said Marciano would be the toughest fight and I happen to agree with them...Frazier was tough and one of my favorites but can not see him getting past Marciano's right hand

[redrooster]

Originally Posted by Seamus

Frazier was bigger, faster, better footwork, and yes, had better stamina. He was more adapted to fighting real heavyweights. The Rock, who I hold in the greatest esteem, was only a heavyweight in an era deficient of such.

My opinions are absolutely consistent. Don't play armchair psychiatrist.

Frazier was never fast. Better footwork? What was he, Jim Corbett?

where do u guys come up with this stuff?

[SuzieQ49]

Seamus,

How would Marciano do against sub 200lbers from 1960-present?

[ETM]

?

We know Rocky hit much harder than Ali but was he physically stronger than Ali? Could Ali smother him with the 30lbs weight advantage when he wanted to rest?

Ali was a big man and he was strong. He knew how to use that strength to buy time but also make the other man work.

[gentleman jim]

I think Ali's power gets underrated at times. While certainly not a power puncher, He could get your attention with a well placed shot. Look what he did to Lyle in thier fight. He basically played with Ron until the 11th round when he landed a laser right hand and for all intents and purposes ended the fight as Lyle was helpless after that and Ron was a big strong heavyweight who could take a punch. Liston himself admitted that Ali could punch pretty hard so I don;t think it's fair to say that Ali couldn't punch because he could. Combine that with his speed and accuracy and Rocky could be in for some rough moments. The reverse is also true of course but Rocky will be punching up all night at a very mobile heavyweight with one of the best chins in the history of the HW division..as well as one of the best jabs to boot,,,at the end of an 80" reach no less. Makes me think of a fighter bomber attacking a tank.

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by redrooster

Frazier was never fast. Better footwork? What was he, Jim Corbett?

where do u guys come up with this stuff?

You get a fat zero on reading comprehension.

Fast in comparison to Marciano if you care to see the context of the conversation.

Yes, better footwork by a mile. Even Goldman said Marciano had two left feet. Frazier was great at herding, directing and crowding. Quick feet, too.

You do know the Julio Chavez, hardly a fancy dan, had immaculate footwork, right? That not all footwork is in the defensive or elusive sense?

[Danmann]

Marciano had great reflexes,something overlooked in favor of speed. Reflexes are more important than speed in boxing. if he had opening, he got shot in, and he had way more defense than given credit for.

[Ali_]

Originally Posted by Danmann

Marciano had great reflexes,something overlooked in favor of speed. Reflexes are more important than speed in boxing. if he had opening, he got shot in, and he had way more defense than given credit for.

Mind showing me the tapes you're studying?

[Ali_]

Originally Posted by ETM

?

We know Rocky hit much harder than Ali but was he physically stronger than Ali? Could Ali smother him with the 30lbs weight advantage when he wanted to rest?

Ali was a big man and he was strong. He knew how to use that strength to buy time but also make the other man work.

Right.
Because the way to use your strength as a boxer effectively is to rely on smothering someone when you need to rest.

[IMG]********i.imgur.com/cyTIH.jpg[/IMG]

[Ali_]

Originally Posted by Seamus
Frazier was bigger, faster, better footwork, and yes, had better stamina. He was more adapted to fighting real heavyweights. The Rock, who I hold in the greatest esteem, was only a heavyweight in an era deficient of such.

My opinions are absolutely consistent. Don't play armchair psychiatrist.

Hmn, everything in check here. Yes. Lets go on.

Originally Posted by redrooster

Frazier was never fast. Better footwork? What was he, Jim Corbett?

where do u guys come up with this stuff?

He made a relative comparison.
Joe Frazier is bigger than Marciano.
Joe Frazier better footwork than Marciano.
Joe Frazier's stamina more lasting than Marciano? Ill say. He took three megafights with the Greatest boxer. Beaten but never tired. Yeah. He had better stamina too..

As for your question as to where 'u guys come up with this stuff?'
Probably from watching fight reels. You should try it. It helps. Seriously it does.