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Old 06-10-2012, 06:52 AM   #31
mcvey
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Default Re: I Have To Believe Jeffries Durabilty

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McVey,

The plaster is applied in wet form and then dries hard.

Fitz had hand problems and actually asked well before the fight to use it to protect his hands, and Jeff did not object. Jeff thought it wouldn't help Bob much (or hurt him) and that he would knock out Fitz regardless. That's how confident/crazy/ignorant he was. After that fight, Jeff realized otherwise and strenuously objected to anyone wearing plaster and wanted the wraps applied in the ring or checked for plaster before the gloves were put on.

Fitzsimmons had insisted on such protection for his hands because of their fragility. He said, “All I want is a little bit of sticking plaster on my hand where it was hurt before.” Jeffries responded, “I have no objection to that. It will be subject to the inspection of the referee, of course.”[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] National Police Gazette, June 14, 21, 1902, August 9, 1902.

The following year, when negotiating the terms of a fight with Corbett, Jeffries did not want to allow Corbett to wear hand bandages, saying that they made the hands like plaster of Paris. Jeff said, “When I fought Fitz last time…he wore bandages which were like a plaster cast. Ordinarily my skin is not easy to open, but when Fitz let go those plaster casts they simply cut me open. The bandages were so hard they even hurt Fitz’s hands.” When Corbett said that Jeff could have a representative observe the wrapping process, Bill Delaney responded, “That’s all right, Jim; but you may accidentally ‘slip’ your hand in a bucket of plaster of paris while meandering from your dressing room to the ring.”[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] Even as early as 1905, the Police Gazette wrote, “It is said that Fitz used to put moistened plaster of Paris on his linen bandages and let the mass grow hard. Then he would have a rocky ridge across his hand that could be felt straight through the glove.”[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] Philadelphia Public Ledger, Press, Inquirer, March 2, 1903; National Police Gazette, March 21, 28, 1903.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] Police Gazette, July 15, 1905.




Regardless, Jeff had mad respect for Bob's boxing skill and punching power, and they made good money together giving exhibitions. Bob even helped train him for the Corbett rematch.

The Dooley bout was not a fight, it was a 4-round exhibition bout with no money on the line based on winner/loser. If it was a formal fight with a big purse on the line, I'm certain Fitz would not have stopped after getting dropped. Fitz was a very small middleweight at that point, more of a welter actually at around 150 pounds, not all that experienced either, and Dooley was a top heavyweight at that point. So they were not even in the same weight class, and Fitz was not fighting as a heavy at that point in his career. They exhibited together several times. Fitz was basically picking up a few bucks as a sparring partner.

I am fairly confident the Hall fight was fixed, but if it wasn't, it was a freakish anomaly, with Fitz knocking out Hall in their other two matches.

Yes Fitz was floored and hurt by Choynski, but almost everyone was hurt and/or floored by Choynski at some point. That's what happens when you fight a puncher with speed and timing. But Fitz got up and finished the job in brutal fashion such that the police entered the ring to save Choynski from a true knockout. Back then, the police acted as secondary referees, for refs back then did not often do the humane stoppage like they do today, but would only terminate the fight upon the count of ten, but the police would stop it when they saw the true knockout as inevitable.

Yup Corbett dropped him. Again, a very fast heavyweight champion with height and reach and timing who was bigger than Fitz (how much is debatable, but everyone concedes at least 15 pounds, if not more), and a guy who was by no means shot at that point in his life. But again, Fitz got up and had Corbett on the run. Sort of like how Trinidad got dropped here and there, but usually had the same guys who dropped him running from him soon thereafter.

I wasn't questioning Fitz's durability , just your statement that Jeffries was the first to ko/ floor him. obviously you wrote that in a hurry.
Wet plaster of paris on your hand would set, and be as damaging to the bones of the wearer as to the face of the receiver. Jeffries examined Fitz's wraps prior to the start.

News paper speculation years after is not proof.
Fitz cut Jeffries badly around the eye in their first fight, it was not a unique occurence for him to have facial damage whatever he said.
I've used electrical tape on my hands ,[Dempsey may have worn it at Toledo,] after an initial ordinary hand wrap , then ordinary wrap on top ,it makes your hand into a solid mass without damaging your own bones but after a few rounds your hands get numb as there is little or no give in it.. But by then your opponent is usually ready for bed anyway. These were not regulated boxing matches BTW.
How's the Johnson story coming along?
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:15 PM   #32
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Default Re: I Have To Believe Jeffries Durabilty

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This has always been my position , that Jeffries is unproven against big heavyweights, but after reading about the damage that Fitz did to Gus Ruhlin , I have to say ,since Jeffries never hit the deck against Fitz , his chin is top drawer.
What's a big heavy? Ruhlin at 200? Jackson at 195? Munroe at 210+?

There were no skilled heavies around over 220 pounds. In fact, skilled heavyweights over 220 pounds are rather rare until the 1980's. So the same statement can apply to most champions.

The ability to take a punch is best graded vs. noted hitters when they land.

Jeffries took shots from Fitzsimmons, Choynski, and Sharkey with light gloves and mouthpiece to help absorb the shock and was never close to going down.



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Old 06-15-2012, 04:17 AM   #33
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Default Re: I Have To Believe Jeffries Durabilty

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What's a big heavy? Ruhlin at 200? Jackson at 195? Munroe at 210+?

There were no skilled heavies around over 220 pounds. In fact, skilled heavyweights over 220 pounds are rather rare until the 1980's. So the same statement can apply to most champions.

The ability to take a punch is best graded vs. noted hitters when they land.

Jeffries took shots from Fitzsimmons, Choynski, and Sharkey with light gloves and mouthpiece to help absorb the shock and was never close to going down.

Jeffries beat one 200lbs man of any class who was near his prime, so what is wrong with my statement?
Munroe was rubbish . Jackson was a wreck.

Jeffries best wins were over . Weight advantage
Fitzsimmons.37 & 39years old, 167lbs & 172LBs. 39lbs&47lbs
Corbett. 33 & 36 years old,188lbs & 183lbs 27lbs&30lbs
Sharkey . 180lbs & 183lbs. 25lbs &32lbs

The heaviest of this trio was Corbett in their first fight 188lbs that is 12 lbs south of 200lbs. I never mentioned 220lbs that is your invention.
Fitz was inside the Lhvy limit for both fights.

Jeffries had huge weight advantages in his 6 major fights, and significant age advantages in 4 of them.

I've unequivococably decided Jeffries had a top drawer chin.
What is your point?
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Old 06-15-2012, 04:37 AM   #34
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Default Re: I Have To Believe Jeffries Durabilty

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There is no denying or eluding the fact that Fitz hit like a mother****er.
But not as hard as Dokes ?
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