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Old 06-10-2012, 09:12 AM   #151
burt bienstock
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Default Re: Question:Why some have Rocky overJack?

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Originally Posted by Pachilles View Post
Without reading the thread, has burt...

1) Said 'naysayers' atleast 5 times?

2a) Name dropped Nat Fleischer?

2b) And thousands of boxing writers?

3) Taken atleast 5 differing opinions as insults?

4) Insinuated in so many words that we today are lesser beings than back when men were men?

5) Excused Dempsey's inactivity with the title of a Ricky Martin song?

6) Crushed the myth that Dempsey didnt face black fighters, with the fact that he signed for one?

6) Threatened to leave the forum, in a fashion that subtlely invites people to beg him to stay?
Yes Pachilles to all that, and the truth shall set YOU free !
P.S. And I'll leave ESB on my volition, OK !
P.P.S. cause you don't believe in what I post doesn't mean it's not true sir !
P.P.P.S. You are obsessed with RACE for dang sure..
P.P.P.P.S. who are you to criticize Dempsey for embracing the La Dolca Vita life after he came into money...The guy struggled from a teenager to get food into his stomache riding the rails hanging on to the under carriage of trains ,getting off the next town to hustle for work or a fight, and deserved whatever pleasure he got going to Hollywood...You love to snipe
me though i thought our thread had run it's course...
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Old 06-10-2012, 09:19 AM   #152
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Default Re: Question:Why some have Rocky overJack?

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I am basing it on the premise that Dempsey is a pure finisher who specialises in speed finishing, while Marciano is an atrittion finisher.
Then why does Marciano have more 1 punch knockouts than Dempsey does?
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:07 AM   #153
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Default Re: Question:Why some have Rocky overJack?

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
Then why does Marciano have more 1 punch knockouts than Dempsey does?
Because you are wrong S. Dempsey had 25 first round kos. How can you know if some of them were not a 1 punch ko ? You don't. Only a supposition on your part S. Dempsey before Willard, flattened bigger men than Rocky did
and the left hook that dropped Jess Willard in the first round, dropping big Jess for the first time ever, was a powerful punch considering Dempsey had
to punch UP to reach the chin of the 6 ft 6" Willard. The one-two that flattened Firpo for the last time was so fast and powerful that the camera can hardly pick it up but we see the results...Dempsey could hit and hit fast...Cheers
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Old 06-10-2012, 06:30 PM   #154
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Default Re: Question:Why some have Rocky overJack?

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Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
Because you are wrong S. Dempsey had 25 first round kos. How can you know if some of them were not a 1 punch ko ? You don't. Only a supposition on your part S. Dempsey before Willard, flattened bigger men than Rocky did
and the left hook that dropped Jess Willard in the first round, dropping big Jess for the first time ever, was a powerful punch considering Dempsey had
to punch UP to reach the chin of the 6 ft 6" Willard. The one-two that flattened Firpo for the last time was so fast and powerful that the camera can hardly pick it up but we see the results...Dempsey could hit and hit fast...Cheers
Letīs not forget how Dempsey destroyed prime Fred Fulton in just some seconds.......always thought that this was a very underrated win.....

20 lbs of advantage to Fulton......
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Old 06-11-2012, 04:11 PM   #155
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Default Re: Question:Why some have Rocky overJack?

Just wanted to add a little tit-bit while I was thinking about it - I watched Dempsey against Brennan, Gibbons and Carp today and one thing that struck me quite a bit was how no one seemed capable of stopping Jack from continuing to hit away when they were actually trying to tie up his arms - he was always able to get a hand free and hammer away with really painful looking shots - was watching Rock-Ez II aswell and in the early goings Ez was able to do the same to Rock by clipping away round the sides of the head with the free hand - just made me think would Dempsey shake Marciano up in close by dragging him around and getting away with those rabbit punches?? Would Marciano stay away from the clinches with Dempsey?
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Old 06-11-2012, 04:38 PM   #156
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Default Re: Question:Why some have Rocky overJack?

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Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose View Post
Just wanted to add a little tit-bit while I was thinking about it - I watched Dempsey against Brennan, Gibbons and Carp today and one thing that struck me quite a bit was how no one seemed capable of stopping Jack from continuing to hit away when they were actually trying to tie up his arms - he was always able to get a hand free and hammer away with really painful looking shots - was watching Rock-Ez II aswell and in the early goings Ez was able to do the same to Rock by clipping away round the sides of the head with the free hand - just made me think would Dempsey shake Marciano up in close by dragging him around and getting away with those rabbit punches?? Would Marciano stay away from the clinches with Dempsey?
Good question Rocky ? Marciano needed more punching room to launch his grenades, and like it or not half his shots missed the target...Rocky was so effective because of "attrition". He had great stamina which allowed him to miss the target half the times,and wear down his opponent...Dempsey at his best was the best heavyweight in-fighter ever...His punches needed very ,very little room to be effective...Of course against Jess Willard ,Jack had to punch "up"to reach the giant Willard's chin, losing leverage power but still hit so violently that for example, the first left-hook in the first round, had so much upper torque that it dropped Willard for his very first time on the canvas... Rocky please watch the last round of the Dempsey/ Willard fight in which Dempsey in a virtual clinch with Firpo , frees his left hand somehow, and hits the strong Firpo with a tattoo of powerful left
hook uppercuts so fast like a blurr, all landing with no room between the two fighters...Something I have never seen before or since...Please take a gander on this, and the fast one-two combo that flattened Firpo for the final count...And your comment Rocky. ?
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Old 06-11-2012, 04:47 PM   #157
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Default Re: Question:Why some have Rocky overJack?

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Old 06-11-2012, 05:04 PM   #158
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Default Re: Question:Why some have Rocky overJack?

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Good question Rocky ? Marciano needed more punching room to launch his grenades, and like it or not half his shots missed the target...Rocky was so effective because of "attrition". He had great stamina which allowed him to miss the target half the times,and wear down his opponent...Dempsey at his best was the best heavyweight in-fighter ever...His punches needed very ,very little room to be effective...Of course against Jess Willard ,Jack had to punch "up"to reach the giant Willard's chin, losing leverage power but still hit so violently that for example, the first left-hook in the first round, had so much upper torque that it dropped Willard for his very first time on the canvas... Rocky please watch the last round of the Dempsey/ Willard fight in which Dempsey in a virtual clinch with Firpo , frees his left hand somehow, and hits the strong Firpo with a tattoo of powerful left
hook uppercuts so fast like a blurr, all landing with no room between the two fighters...Something I have never seen before or since...Please take a gander on this, and the fast one-two combo that flattened Firpo for the final count...And your comment Rocky. ?
Rocky, I meant "the last round of the Dempsey / FIRPO FIGHT". Sorry !
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Old 06-11-2012, 05:05 PM   #159
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Default Re: Question:Why some have Rocky overJack?

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Old 06-11-2012, 06:04 PM   #160
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Default Re: Question:Why some have Rocky overJack?

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Then why does Marciano have more 1 punch knockouts than Dempsey does?
Even if we accept the premis that Marciano had more first punch knockouts (impossible to be sure), I would see that as more an argument with regard to overall power than finishing ability.
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:18 PM   #161
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Default Re: Question:Why some have Rocky overJack?

Burt's right....I think I need a drink. Either a Captain Morgan and coke or some Jack Daniels Honey licquer on the rocks. I love reading these posts as well as posting myself while buzzed.
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:27 PM   #162
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Default Re: Question:Why some have Rocky overJack?

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Burt's right....I think I need a drink. Either a Captain Morgan and coke or some Jack Daniels Honey licquer on the rocks. I love reading these posts as well as posting myself while buzzed.
Tonight gm i was at a bar hoisting a few, when lo and behold a horse walked into the bar and the bartender asked "why the long face " ?
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Old 06-11-2012, 09:40 PM   #163
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Default Re: Question:Why some have Rocky overJack?

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Old 06-11-2012, 09:51 PM   #164
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Default Re: Question:Why some have Rocky overJack?

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Burt's right....I think I need a drink. Either a Captain Morgan and coke or some Jack Daniels Honey licquer on the rocks. I love reading these posts as well as posting myself while buzzed.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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Old 06-11-2012, 10:33 PM   #165
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Default Re: Question:Why some have Rocky overJack?

I always thought a lot of Jack Dempsey but have backed up a lot since posting on ESB, he used to be my #4 Heavyweight but I wavered a bit recently. That being said a fight between a prime Marciano and Prime Dempsey would be a war. Jack may start real quick but he better be careful because Marciano could also hit with either hand. I think Jack has the better success early as Marciano warms up but as the fight goes on from round 1-10 or 1-15 Marciano gradually goes into full motion and Rocky had proven late power and stamina while Dempsey was not as proven. Jack may drop or stun Marciano but I have never seen Rocky hurt in a fight and truthfully even though Jack was stunned vs Firpo he was not hurt. The fight I seen him hurt was with Carpentier before Jack stopped him. Chins are both solid, killer instinct intact, Marciano a subtle defense and how does Jack's crouch match-up against Marciano's swiveling catcher stance. Tough battle but IMO Rocky wears Jack down and lands a few bombs late and gets the stop or the KO...Marciano KO11

I used to go up to Ring magazine when I was a youngster and chat with Nat F. and the old fellas before a fight in the Garden or felt forum or a visit to the 28th st. gym, Dempsey was electric to them...There was no one like him in his day and made a strong impression on these old-timers, still I think Marciano takes him deep and out
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