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Old 02-26-2008, 07:06 AM   #31
Senya13
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Default Re: Eder Jofre vs. Ruben Olivares

In all 3 fights of Jofre that are available of film, he was open to too many punches than could be expected by simply reading on him. Olivares at his best was harder to hit cleanly and a more versatile boxer, in my opinion.
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Old 02-26-2008, 07:31 AM   #32
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Default Re: Eder Jofre vs. Ruben Olivares

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Originally Posted by Raging B(_)LL
We`ve done this matchup before and in the past I sided with Jofre to win via late KO, but now I am not so sure...

Today I like Olivares in this matchup. Jofre got hit a lot by a buzzsaw fighter in Fighting Harada, and I think Ruben at his best would put even more pressure on Jofre than Harada because Olivares had the KO power behind his punches that Harada lacked. Jofre's boxing would not hold off a relentless Olivares and I think Olivares might even win via late KO, if not a decision.

The problem with Eder was that he often took many punches in trying to establish himself in a fight, did not seem particularly devastating with one punch ko power and seemed bothered when pressured. I think he would have been bothered by Olivares swarming attack and speed, and when trying to establlish himself he would get caught by Olivares and be at least knocked down and made to re-evaluate his fight plan.

When Ruben beat Rose for the title he was constantly pressing, barely out of range then inside throwing hard punches then back out to return from a new angle. I get the impression that he may have been quicker- certainly of foot, probably of hand as well- than Jofre. Jofre would need to be more active than against Harada- punch more, move more, be more proactive- or Olivares could overrun him.

While I believe that Jofre was the superior overall boxer, and that later in his career at 118 Olivares may not have been conditioned well enough to keep the pace, I feel that the Olivares that won the 118 title and was 51-0-1 w/49 kos would have beaten Jofre, and what a fight it would have been!
Here's the thing. The Jofre who fought Harda had trouble making weight and fought in Harda's home country. While I do think Harda won the fight, I also think those two X-factors helped him a bit. It was a styles thing, on one of Harda's best nights.

There is no doubt that Jorfe was a skilled aggressive boxer-puncher, with defense, a chin, good ( but not great ) power, stamina and footwork, but at the same time, a true swarmer in his prime could take him.

Olivares was the better puncher! But I think but his stamina and skills was less, and his chin was more suspect.

Jofre vs Olivares would be a ring classic. I think Jofre gets the better early on skills, then Olivares gets the better in the mid rounds on power, and finally Jofre takes over late to win a late TKO or split decision type of fight. Jofre was never stopped 78 fights, and was only down once or twice I think. Jofre showed plenty of heart vs Harda when it just wasn't his night.

Unless Olivares lands a true bomb, I think Jofre's skills, and better work rate ( I think ) wins the day.
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Old 02-26-2008, 08:52 AM   #33
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Default Re: Eder Jofre vs. Ruben Olivares

Where did Jofre display better skills than Olivares?
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Old 02-26-2008, 09:12 AM   #34
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Default Re: Eder Jofre vs. Ruben Olivares

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Originally Posted by Senya13
Where did Jofre display better skills than Olivares?
Much of Jofre's best stuff is not on flim. Those who saw him felt he was a special type of fighter.

Here's a long, but very good article on Jofre that undersorces his greatness.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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Old 02-26-2008, 09:45 AM   #35
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Default Re: Eder Jofre vs. Ruben Olivares

I saw that article long time ago. It doesn't provide an answer to what I was asking. Olivares shows great skills in his best fights also, while the best we have of Jofre (and Medel is considered one of his best fights) doesn't show his superiority over Olivares, I'd even say he's less skilled/versatile than Ruben, going by film alone.
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Old 02-26-2008, 10:29 AM   #36
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Default Re: Eder Jofre vs. Ruben Olivares

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Originally Posted by Senya13
I saw that article long time ago. It doesn't provide an answer to what I was asking. Olivares shows great skills in his best fights also, while the best we have of Jofre (and Medel is considered one of his best fights) doesn't show his superiority over Olivares, I'd even say he's less skilled/versatile than Ruben, going by film alone.
Well, Medel was a top fighter, and skills don't always come out vs class fighters. If you think, Olivares has more skill, ok. However, both are skilled. Olivares vs Jofre is going to be an action match. I think we agree here. In such a case, I'll go with the person with the better chin, better stamina, and less prone to cuts. That man is Jofre.

I would have to see more film on Olivares to see the skill advantage you're talking about. Olivares was a big puncher, with the hook being his lights out weapon. I do not recall Olivares being good on the counter, slipping punches, blocking punches or using fancy footwork. Olivares to me was old school Mexican boxer, and those type of fighters were not defensive oriented in general.


However, I'll remain open minded. Which Olivares fights would you recomend where he showed good all around skills that make you think he had more than Jofre?
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Old 02-26-2008, 11:45 AM   #37
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Default Re: Eder Jofre vs. Ruben Olivares

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Originally Posted by bravecubs
Red cobra,Mendoza you strike Again!!!IBRO Great!! Not in League with Dan Cuuco, But I grewUp with Olivares!!! I would be here all day mexican greats WOW!!! SO. CAL. I was blessed !! I grew up LA , Dodger Stadium the Olympic!!! I was ring side Famoso Octavio Gomez (toasted) beat prime Little Red... Lopez. His LAST fight Eder handled this younger stronger Gomez with ease!!!!!! Chu Chu ,Rafaeeeel Herrera KO Eder NEVER...!!! ...
Bc,

Did you ever seen Danny "Little Red" Lopez` fight against a japanese fighter by the name of Masanao Toyoshima? Lasted all of three rounds but by all accounts was just as good a fight if not better than the Hearns/Hagler fight. Lopez decked him twice in the first round, but the little jap came battling back to take the second and drop Danny in the third and have him on the verge of a KO when Danny landed that atomic right hand towards the end of the round to end matters... did you see this fight by any chance?
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Old 02-26-2008, 11:52 AM   #38
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Default Re: Eder Jofre vs. Ruben Olivares

As for how a fight between Jofre and Olivares unfolds, I won`t add more to this discussion that hasn`t already been said except to say that on each man`s best night, either could defeat the other and it would be a very close fight. If anyone does get stopped however it would likely be Ruben who`s chin wasn`t as solid as Jofre`s.

Mendoza, if you want to see a boxing masterpiece by Ruben check out his 3rd fight against Chucho Castillo, that was a masterful performance on Ruben`s part. His fight against Arguello was another good one in which while past his best, he still gave a young Alexis all he could handle and was winning the fight going away until getting caught late.
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Old 02-26-2008, 12:27 PM   #39
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Default Re: Eder Jofre vs. Ruben Olivares

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Originally Posted by bravecubs
BUll, Iwatched it on CH. 5, dick Endberg, it was fan taaaaaastic!! I remeber the night Little Red was beaten by pretty darn good Japanesse Shig Fukyamma I was on way feeling good with great guys like you to Dodger Stadium to see Burt Hooten shut out the Padres> W0w!!! those were the days!! Little Reds arms were like parakeete wings!! But he could BANG!!! He stopped Rockin Ruben in 7!!I wont even look, I think later a year later. Wow Little Red, Sean O Grady,Hafey,RauuuuL Cruz!! Jimmy lennons father SR. was our announcer.....WOW!!!
Bc,

Please, for the love of god tell me you have a copy of that Lopez/Toyoshima fight! I`ll pay top dollar for that fight if you have it, I don`t even care wether the quality is good or bad, I just want the fight. Have you checked your pm`s by the way?

Another great Lopez fight was his two round war with another Jap by the name of Kenji Endo which I have on tape. Endo knocked him down in the first and beat the living daylights out of Danny for most of the round until that right hand found its mark near the end of the round.

Endo visited the canvas five times altogether before the fight was waived off in the second round. I don`t know why, but it seems everyone of those little japanese fellas that Danny tussled with ended up being great fights, including the Fukuyama fight which is one of my favourites.
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Old 02-26-2008, 01:50 PM   #40
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Default Re: Eder Jofre vs. Ruben Olivares

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Originally Posted by sweet_scientist
Yeah but what had he achieved at bantamweight on a world class stage? That's kind of like saying Roberto Duran was a featherweight.
duran was a featherweight at the age of 16, hamed was a bamtamweigth for a good 2 years before he even moved up to featherweight, 3 years actually.
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Old 02-26-2008, 02:48 PM   #41
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Default Re: Eder Jofre vs. Ruben Olivares

Quote:
Originally Posted by bravecubs
Rage , sorry Im just going on memory, if ihad it be yours my friend , ill check E-mail, I seen that one TV, I was Ringside Anaheim Red, Gomez brawl also on card good fave Light Jimmy Heair good lad from Mississippi!! P.S. lot fights back 70s FREEEE TV wow Quarry(I saw is 1st 12 ch 5 ,!3th LD10 Machen blacked out!!! ThOSE WERE the days
Bc,

Thanks anyways bud, I figured it was worth a try. I`ve been trying to get a hold of the Toyoshima fight for years, and I hope to eventually track down a copy... if I do I`ll make sure to send it to you. Btw, do you have any memories of tough little canuck Art Hafey? I`ve got a few of his fights and what a little scrapper, his fight against the hard-hitting David Sotelo was a scorcher! Christ could those two guys punch, especially Sotelo who had him on queer street in the 3rd round but somehow Art hung in there and battled back. I got your pm too btw (you forgot to type a message!), but contact me via e-mail instead... I included my e-mail address for you in a pm I just sent you.
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Old 02-26-2008, 02:53 PM   #42
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Default Re: Eder Jofre vs. Ruben Olivares

I know this thread is about a Jofre/Olivares matchup, but what do you folks think of a Harada/Olivares matchup instead? That sounds like a very interesting fight, perhaps one of us should start a thread on it....
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Old 02-26-2008, 05:00 PM   #43
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Default Re: Eder Jofre vs. Ruben Olivares

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Originally Posted by brownpimp88
duran was a featherweight at the age of 16, hamed was a bamtamweigth for a good 2 years before he even moved up to featherweight, 3 years actually.
Hamed had a total of 5 fights at bantamweight in those two years. In between that he was a superbantamweight and and then was a super bantam for another year after that.

Roberto Duran had a total of 7 fights at featherweight. He was fighting at featherweight and super featherweight for a good 2 years before he moved up to lightweight (2 and a half years into his career). During that time he beat a fighter better than anyone Hamed beat in his career, so maybe I should argue that Duran was really a superfeatherweight. He was only 18 at the time, but so what?
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Old 02-26-2008, 07:24 PM   #44
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Default Re: Eder Jofre vs. Ruben Olivares

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raging B(_)LL
I know this thread is about a Jofre/Olivares matchup, but what do you folks think of a Harada/Olivares matchup instead? That sounds like a very interesting fight, perhaps one of us should start a thread on it....
It's very likely that Harada could smother Olivares with his nonstop attack and limitless stamina. After all, he twice beat Eder Jofre, and was the only man to ever do it. I think it took a pure boxer type to defeat Harada, as was shown by both Lionel Rose and later in the rematch with Johnny Famechon, although that seems a bit unfair to Harada, as he was pretty spent by then. I just believe that Harada was perhaps the ultimate swarmer, and a talented one at that, and I would give a 64-40 shot at defeating Olivares. There are MANY, MANY guys who Ruben would have clocked, and he was so dangerous, but Harada's style and ability was above that of Lionel Rose, even if Rose defeated him, and Harada certainly was superior to Alan Rudkin, Jesus Pimentel, and Kazuyoshi Kanazawa the three other guys Olivares defended against at bantamweight. Eder Jofre and Fighting Harada were special bantam champions, kind of like the Jack Dempsey and Gene Tunney of the bantamweights, with Harada obviously being the Gene Tunney to Jofre's Jack Dempsey.
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