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Old 12-29-2011, 01:00 PM   #31
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Default Re: Primary sources and opinions of ones peers..

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Old 12-29-2011, 01:02 PM   #32
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Default Re: Primary sources and opinions of ones peers..

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Originally Posted by TAC602 View Post
Where the hell did it all come from?

Literally every other thread the last few days has devolved into a vicious back-and-forth about Jack Dempsey.

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Old 12-29-2011, 01:52 PM   #33
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Default Re: Primary sources and opinions of ones peers..

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Originally Posted by Seamus
Is this a different broad in your avatar or just another picture of the last one?
Same chick.

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Im not no malnourished 15 year old, string bean, pot dealer, Karate Kid. Windswept haired, hipster ass, Daniel Larusso fighting style having mother ****er
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:44 PM   #34
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Default Re: Primary sources and opinions of ones peers..

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pachilles View Post
Look in the favourite fighter from each division thread. And look at Janitor's list. i wonder how much fight footage available there is in total for all of those guys. Probably not even a short career's worth.

His opinions are based entirely on articles, and has a clear bias toward the era's he has researched. The thing about placing your entire viewpoint on literature, is that poetic license is always taken. And you will find every notable fighter in history being credited as one of the toughest, one of the fastest, one of the best technicians etc..in one article or another
You could at least wait untill I express an opinion in this thread before you try to tear it down!

Primary source material is essential to understanding the career of any fighter before the second word war. Without it you will simply not know what actualy happened in most of their fights. Without it, you have just got boxrec.

Quote:
You'll never see him using footage as evidence, because the footage of those era's takes a giant, stinking shit on his argument.
I frequently use footage to interpret the styles of early fighters.

The people who are most critical of early fighters based on film, are usualy the worst at interpreting old fight films.
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:50 PM   #35
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Default Re: Primary sources and opinions of ones peers..

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Is this defensible though? Jess Willard would beat Ali?
It probably was defensible in 1970.

There had been no Frazier trilogy, No Foreman fight, it was verry questionable where Ali would end up in the grand scheme of things.

Then again, given the acuracy of Tunneys prediction for the fight of the century, perhaps Willard does better than we think.
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Old 12-29-2011, 07:42 PM   #36
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Default Re: Primary sources and opinions of ones peers..

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It probably was defensible in 1970.

There had been no Frazier trilogy, No Foreman fight, it was verry questionable where Ali would end up in the grand scheme of things.

Then again, given the acuracy of Tunneys prediction for the fight of the century, perhaps Willard does better than we think.
By 1970, Muhammad Ali had already achieved, and proved far more than Jess Willard ever did. You always look to give the benefit of the doubt to the older fighter, I know, but come on. Be objective. Do you genuinely feel that Willard would cause Ali any difficulties? A past prime, size disadvantaged Jack Johnson soundly outboxed him.
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:06 PM   #37
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Default Re: Primary sources and opinions of ones peers..

Why did you avoid my question, Janitor?
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:13 PM   #38
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Default Re: Primary sources and opinions of ones peers..

for a long time all i did was watch film, then i started reading this site to get new people to watch, along the way i realised context is way too important, especially with a lack of footage. i used to laugh at willard against dempsey but history, not film shows willard wasn't as useless as film shows, and then i see more in jack too.
also this site has people who saw this stuff first hand, and that is one hell of a resource to ignore.
the age bias will be dependent on person, but today the talent pool is so small any young person can't say/think anything like that so i don't really know.
so I wont offer any opinion on someone there is no film of, but film aint everything, even with a today fighter.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:16 PM   #39
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Default Re: Primary sources and opinions of ones peers..

I forgot about how mental things were going there for a little while on here.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:54 PM   #40
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Default Re: Primary sources and opinions of ones peers..

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Originally Posted by manbearpig View Post
Why did you avoid my question, Janitor?

Put my man on the spot.
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:39 PM   #41
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Default Re: Primary sources and opinions of ones peers..

He has still avoided it.


Also, get it round you Pachilles. I've been going on about the weaknesses in using other people's opinions since before you even started your 'Duran deserves a mention' quip.
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:43 PM   #42
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Default Re: Primary sources and opinions of ones peers..

holy shit, i think tunney could have beat willard. remember this quote is from a great fighter but also someone who never faced a black fighter.
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:59 PM   #43
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Default Re: Primary sources and opinions of ones peers..

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Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
Don't be disingenuos, who in their right mind would say that Jess Willard would beat Ali in a 15 round fight.? No sane poster would say that.
Sir, it is YOU who are BIAS, and your ludicrous assertion proves that...
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Gene Tunney makes that pick in the link you didn't bother to click on.

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Old 06-20-2012, 06:10 PM   #44
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Default Re: Primary sources and opinions of ones peers..

The Dempsey-Firpo of ESB threads. Short, explosive, controversial.
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:13 PM   #45
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Default Re: Primary sources and opinions of ones peers..

It's a good thread for a trolling Pachilleslite
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