The last Emperor's last fight, Fedor announces retirement!

[Stoo]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Cro Cop, Shogun, Wandy, Fedor, Big Nog, Rampage

Shogun - Former Champ is 5-3. Avenged his loss to Griffin, lost an ATG fight with Hendo, and lost his belt to the new kid on the block
Rampage - Former Champ is 7-4
Wandy - Rejoined the UFC in his 39th fight, after two consecutive losses is 3-5
Big Nog - Joined the UFC after 35 fights, is former Interim Champ and is 4-3
Now Fedor, very disappointing SF run, stupidlyy jumped into Werdums trap, twice. Got out muscled but Big Foot in the 2nd round, and lost to a former MW. Disappointing run

And the biggest of them all Cro Cop. Got frustrated on the mat by Gabe and against the cage against Kongo, and obviously everyone knows what happens there. Didnt adapt his style to the bigger surface area of the cage, and seemingly lost his desire. No excuses

Not a bad run for most of those guys under the circumstances

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by Stoo

Shogun - Former Champ is 5-3. Avenged his loss to Griffin, lost an ATG fight with Hendo, and lost his belt to the new kid on the block

Soooo........

* Lost to a guy who made his name on a reality show. Managed to beat him in a rematch in Brazil when the guy's wife was back in the States giving birth to his first child literally while he was fighting.

* Lost a 5 round decision to a 41 year old ex-middleweight.

* Was utterly obliterated by a 23 year old fellow ATG in one of the most spectacularly one-sided ass-kickings in title fight history.

* Beat Machida twice, good efforts there but expected from his reputation.

* Beat old Chuck and ancient Coleman, fairly meaningless wins there.

So basically since leaving PRIDE, he beat Machida aaaaaaand....... that's all he's done.

Originally Posted by Stoo

Rampage - Former Champ is 7-4
Wandy - Rejoined the UFC in his 39th fight, after two consecutive losses is 3-5
Big Nog - Joined the UFC after 35 fights, is former Interim Champ and is 4-3
Now Fedor, very disappointing SF run, stupidlyy jumped into Werdums trap, twice. Got out muscled but Big Foot in the 2nd round, and lost to a former MW. Disappointing run

They all suddenly went from legendary ATGs to .500 fighters, losing to fighters who get mocked and belittled as chumps by the "experts" on this forum.

A guy like Roy Nelson is 36, has soaked up incredible punishment from naturally bigger men for his entire career, and has managed to remain competitive. Yet when Big Country loses, it isn't because he's over the hill or he's injured or he's had too many wars. It's because he sucks. There's a double standard that extends to ALL the PRIDE guys.

Originally Posted by Stoo

And the biggest of them all Cro Cop. Got frustrated on the mat by Gabe and against the cage against Kongo, and obviously everyone knows what happens there. Didnt adapt his style to the bigger surface area of the cage, and seemingly lost his desire. No excuses

I got some sympathy for preferring the ring to the cage. But hey, if he's THAT good, deal with it. I'm sure that JDS would prefer to fight in a ring, and he'd be much more effective too. But he finds a way to be effective in the cage regardless.

Originally Posted by Stoo

Not a bad run for most of those guys under the circumstances

I'd say it's pretty damned shit really. Not one of them found any lasting success outside of PRIDE. All of them, every single one of them, got their asses kicked more than once by fighters who the PRIDE nuthuggers give no credit to whatsoever. There has to be a reason for all of these guys just plain not being anywhere near as good once they're out of PRIDE and pissing in jars for the commission. What is it?

[Beouche]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ3nPP39XbA[/ame]

[Stoo]

This is not a case of they went to the UFC and did shit, you really dont understand what type of toll MMA takes on someones body. This is just a retarded brand arguement, Ive not made excuses for any of these guys performing poorly, in the case of Shogun, Rampage and Nog, they all took home the gold. Fedor and Cro Cop underachieved BADLY

Ok let's talk about double standards. The top guys in the UFC at the time, 05-07 were

HW's Andre Arlovski - Lost to former PRIDE guys Kharitanov and Fedor, beat Werdum. Is now 5-4 since 07

Timmy - Lost to former PRIDE guys Fedor and Nog, and a retired LHW, is 8-4 since 07

LHW Chuck - Lost to former PRIDE guys Rampage and Shogun is 5-1 since 07

Rich Franklin - Lost to PRIDE guys Vitor, Hendo and Anderson, is 7-4 since 07

Matt Hughes - Got beaten up by GSP in 06, is 4-4 since 07

Sean Sherk is 3-2 since 07

Now personally Im not giving the PRIDE guys a pass and Im not criticisng the UFC guys either but getting old isnt brand specific.

You dont realise the toll MMA fighting takes on these guys, your just reading wikipedia. 20+ fights with 4 ounce gloves, grappling training day in day out for years ect takes a tremendous toll on ANYONES body, whether there are from the UFC or PRIDE. It's just a fact of life. None of the best guys from the PRIDE cross over, with the exception of Penns run and GSP now, are winning as many fights or performing at their best

It's not as simple as he's in his early 30's, he shouldnt have lost either.Hendo and Randy are they only two guys who immediately come to mind for performing after the age of 35 and they've both lost their fair share of fights in that time too These are two exceptions to that rule. The average glass ceiling for most guys to fight at their best isnt that high when you take out those two, 32-35 is a time when most of the guys from 05-07 started to slip, whether they were in the UFC of PRIDE

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by Stoo

This is not a case of they went to the UFC and did shit, you really dont understand what type of toll MMA takes on someones body. This is just a retarded brand arguement, Ive not made excuses for any of these guys performing poorly, in the case of Shogun, Rampage and Nog, they all took home the gold. Fedor and Cro Cop underachieved BADLY

Ok let's talk about double standards. The top guys in the UFC at the time, 05-07 were

HW's Andre Arlovski - Lost to former PRIDE guys Kharitanov and Fedor, beat Werdum. Is now 5-4 since 07

Timmy - Lost to former PRIDE guys Fedor and Nog, and a retired LHW, is 8-4 since 07

LHW Chuck - Lost to former PRIDE guys Rampage and Shogun is 5-1 since 07

Rich Franklin - Lost to PRIDE guys Vitor, Hendo and Anderson, is 7-4 since 07

Matt Hughes - Got beaten up by GSP in 06, is 4-4 since 07

Sean Sherk is 3-2 since 07

Now personally Im not giving the PRIDE guys a pass and Im not criticisng the UFC guys either but getting old isnt brand specific.

You dont realise the toll MMA fighting takes on these guys, your just reading wikipedia. 20+ fights with 4 ounce gloves, grappling training day in day out for years ect takes a tremendous toll on ANYONES body, whether there are from the UFC or PRIDE. It's just a fact of life. None of the best guys, with the exception of Penns run and GSP now, are winning as many fights or performing at their best

It's not as simple as he's in his early 30's, he shouldnt have lost either.Hendo and Randy performing after the age of 35and they've both lost their fair share of fights in that time two There are two exceptions to that rule. The average glass ceiling for most guys to fight at their best isnt that high when you take out those two, 32-35 is a time when most of the guys from 05-07 started to slip, whether they were in the UFC of PRIDE

First off, I'm not talking directly about you with these complaints, or accusing you of being one of these PRIDE fanboys who refuse to acknowledge any loss their heroes suffered post-PRIDE.

But with these guys, it's the double standard that annoys me.

Fedor was past his best because of the years of strain on his body, so his losses don't really count.

But Brock losing to Cain and Overeem is purely because he sucks and is a fraud and is gay. Never mind the toll that decades of competitive wrestling, years in the WWE, a couple of years of serious illness and two major intestinal surgeries had taken on a body that weighed 300 pounds for most of his adult life. Such considerations are not extended to Brock.

And besides, it's not so uncommon as you make out to compete into your mid-30s, especially at a higher weight class. Plenty of journeymen do it. As mentioned, Roy Nelson is 36, still relevant and (arguably) fighting as well as he ever has. Chael is 35 and at the zenith of his career. Bisping is 33 and in his fighting prime.

These contender-level guys can fight competitively into their mid-to-late 30s and find their greatest successes in their 30s. So why did all these PRIDE ATG superstars suddenly fall off a cliff within a year of each other, as soon as their fights began getting regulated by a legitimate athletic commission?

[boxingcar]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Can we suggest that he was "roided"?

It's possible. But still !...

[Stoo]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

First off, I'm not talking directly about you with these complaints, or accusing you of being one of these PRIDE fanboys who refuse to acknowledge any loss their heroes suffered post-PRIDE.

But with these guys, it's the double standard that annoys me.

i understand that, but you do display some pretty high double standards yourself from time to time, anyway I dont want to get into that discussion. Personally Ive said numerous times that a brand argument is retarded, I dont see no reason why you can dismiss someone just because they fought in your preferred organisation and lost.

The road swings both ways, Chuck wasnt as dominant in PRIDE as he was in the UFC, Shogun wasnt the force he once was in the UFC, for various reasons. But both have very good careers even though their best wins came in different companies, and both had success when they made the switch over too.

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Fedor was past his best because of the years of strain on his body, so his losses don't really count.

Im not really sure it was the toll on his body personally. Fedor was able to compete with larger guys and win due to his reflexes and speed. Whether you respect the guy or not, it is obvious those have dimmed in the past few years. I think if the Barnet or/and Randy fight hadnt had both fallen through, his post PRIDE career would look a lot better.

Anyway, that has nothing to do with him falling into Werdums trap on the mat, twice. He got out muscled by Big Foot and again it could be argued fought too hastily, as he did with Hendo when he dropped him. it's as equally as stupid to dismiss this as it is to dismiss just how good he was as a well rounded fighter in his prime

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

But Brock losing to Cain and Overeem is purely because he sucks and is a fraud and is gay. Never mind the toll that decades of competitive wrestling, years in the WWE, a couple of years of serious illness and two major intestinal surgeries had taken on a body that weighed 300 pounds for most of his adult life. Such considerations are not extended to Brock.

And besides, it's not so uncommon as you make out to compete into your mid-30s, especially at a higher weight class. Plenty of journeymen do it. As mentioned, Roy Nelson is 36, still relevant and (arguably) fighting as well as he ever has. Chael is 35 and at the zenith of his career. Bisping is 33 and in his fighting prime.

These contender-level guys can fight competitively into their mid-to-late 30s and find their greatest successes in their 30s. So why did all these PRIDE ATG superstars suddenly fall off a cliff within a year of each other, as soon as their fights began getting regulated by a legitimate athletic commission?

Brock was good for what he was, a power fighter. But when alls said and done he'll just be a footnote in MMA. It should be noted he lost his main attribute after the surgeries, in a similar fashion to Shogun. He didnt ''evolve'' and change up his style, he's as guilty as Cro Cop and Fedor in that regard.

Shogun is a much more patient fighter now, probably due to his cardio not being up to par. the Chute Boxe guys, too a man all over trained, all had brutal fights, and all paid the price of that in their later careers. He's a much older 30 year old than most guys, that's probably a combination of genetic and the aforementioned Chute Box style

And Chael was in his zenith two years ago, when he was in his early 30's. he also spent a career tapping out rather than being punched. His style is suited for a bit more longevity, and he's a drugs cheat like most of the PRIDE guys. He looked decidedly lacklustre against Bisping, maybe he can pull it out of the bag for Silva, I doubt it though

And Im not too sure Id take the more legislated malarky too seriously either. There wasnt the steroid free for all there was in PRIDE. But guys are still allowed to come in with 4 times the normal ratio of testosterone in their bodies, and they are given the date of the test in which to cycle down too...

[Cael]

his wife's pretty, can't blame him for retiring.

[Cael]

Originally Posted by davidwatts

now he can concentrate on becoming a priest, and start telling everyone that it was in fact god who animated him to his success, and not he himself.
'it was god's will that i lost.'

Fedor got KO'ed for our sins.