Joe Bugner Tribute Thread: All Time Great Contender

[Sardu]

Anyone know what Bugner is doing now? Did he save any of his money? Does he have all his marbles? I think he still lives on the gold coast of Australia.

[Senor Pepe']

The future 'Heavyweight Champion'

Joe Bugner, in a June interview, discussing his upcoming July 2, 1973 bout with Joe Frazier, stated;

'That he proved he is a Heavyweight to be taken seriously, as he he went 12-Rounds with Muhammad Ali,
proving he is worthy of a Top 5 Rating.'

"After I defeat Joe Frazier, I want to fight George Foreman for the Heavyweight Championship. I have
the style and the size to defeat him. They say they have a possible September date in the works for
a Heavyweight Championship fight.'

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by kenmore

That fight could go either way. It definitely goes the full route; which guy comes out on top is hard to say. It's possible that Bruno might have had a slight edge, if only because he was more aggressive. Bugner tended to go into his defensive shell when under pressure from strong, powerful, world-level foes.

But then again, the Bugner who fought Frazier might indeed have been too much for Bruno. Hard to say.

People here say that Bugner lacked "heart," courage, or fighting spirit. They say this because of Bugner's tendency to assume the defensive, and because he didn't unleash spirited offensives very much. But I think such fans misunderstand things.

The reality is that Bugner probably didn't feel especially comfortable putting punches together on the attack. Henry Cooper suggested that Bugner may have been a tad muscle-bound in this respect. I don't know. But if there's any truth to it, it would explain why Bugner liked to wait his opponents out while fighting defensively, all the while picking away at them with his best weapon: the fast, cuffing left jab. Bugner was just doing what came naturally to him athletically and physically, maybe.

I don't think Bugner was particularly musclebound. It's just as you say,in that he was just doing what came naturally to him.

With a prime Bugner-Bruno fight,Frank could scrape it within a twelve round limit,but in a fifteen rounder,I envisage Joe stopping Bruno around the thirteenth or fourteenth.

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by Sardu

Anyone know what Bugner is doing now? Did he save any of his money? Does he have all his marbles? I think he still lives on the gold coast of Australia.

I believe Joe lost some money on business ventures gone wrong a few years back. He seems to have come out of it ok though.

[jowcol]

Originally Posted by kenmore

I've got a lot of guys on ignore because they don't know their boxing, don't comprehend what's said to them, and because they argue in circles. Right now, in my book, you are just barely on the "okay" side, so I won't put you on ignore (for now).
But still, you miss the entire point I'm making. The bottom line is this: how do we know how good a fighter is? Do we know from carefully studying their actual performances (body movement, speed, athleticism, etc.) against the best available competition? Or do we know from merely checking how highly rated their defeated opponents were? The former method is the gold standard for knowing a fighter's abilities. The latter isn't.
According to your way of thinking, Leon Spinks is better than, say, Ron Lyle or Earnie Shavers, because Spinks actually beat Ali and the latter two didn't. Senseless reasoning, but that's your mentality. Nothing personal.

Hey kenmore. Please continue to realize that after his 73 performance against Ali, I was higher than a kite trumpeting his potential. By early 76' (after his IMO lackluster performance against Ali in the title scrap) by buds and I said there were three HW's out there that had the style and tools to beat Foreman. Holmes (obviously) Young (style) and Bugner (size, style)
But, and this is major IMO, he lost to Lyle! That fight burst his bubble in my book. Why did he not pound down Ron en route to an easy UD given ALL his talent? Other posters mention him going back to England/Europe with big fights against McAlinden, Bepi Ros??? Piss on these Continent tomato cans; Obviously ready at that time, he should have concentrated on 'top-flight' competition.
Do you honestly see Joe beating Holmes or Norton in say, 76? I'll give you the size factor in a same time frame bout against Jimmy Young, but I wouldn't sell that sneaky little guy short with him being in his short window of prime at the time.
And...'my way of thinking' gives Leon Spinks ZERO props. A 7-0-1 newbie that fights an over the hill (playing all of us for fools) Ali in 78'?
A same time in 78' bout between Bugner-Leon?...Joe wins easily. I still feel Ali (not a popular opinion) didn't give his best against Spinks knowing the green kid would give him a rematch in six months to give Ali the title for a record 3rd time. I feel Patterson's effort against Ellis in Stockholm in '68 was a much better effort in trying for the title a 3rd time. (you're a Bugner nut-hugger, I'm a Floyd nut-hugger )
I guess I'm still at a loss as to your assessment of Joe.

[Senor Pepe']

June 6, 1972

Joe Bugner vs. Richard 'Doug Kirk' Czelewicz

Doug Kirk, American New England Heavyweight Champion.

A 5' 10", 185 lbs. short-armed brawler.

Was Ring Magazine's June 1972 'Prospect of the Month'

13-0-0 (10 KO's)

Blasted by 215 lb. Joe Bugner (TKO 5) in a 'mis-match'.

[kenmore]

Originally Posted by jowcol

Hey kenmore. Please continue to realize that after his 73 performance against Ali, I was higher than a kite trumpeting his potential. By early 76' (after his IMO lackluster performance against Ali in the title scrap) by buds and I said there were three HW's out there that had the style and tools to beat Foreman. Holmes (obviously) Young (style) and Bugner (size, style)
But, and this is major IMO, he lost to Lyle! That fight burst his bubble in my book. Why did he not pound down Ron en route to an easy UD given ALL his talent? Other posters mention him going back to England/Europe with big fights against McAlinden, Bepi Ros??? Piss on these Continent tomato cans; Obviously ready at that time, he should have concentrated on 'top-flight' competition.
Do you honestly see Joe beating Holmes or Norton in say, 76? I'll give you the size factor in a same time frame bout against Jimmy Young, but I wouldn't sell that sneaky little guy short with him being in his short window of prime at the time.
And...'my way of thinking' gives Leon Spinks ZERO props. A 7-0-1 newbie that fights an over the hill (playing all of us for fools) Ali in 78'?
A same time in 78' bout between Bugner-Leon?...Joe wins easily. I still feel Ali (not a popular opinion) didn't give his best against Spinks knowing the green kid would give him a rematch in six months to give Ali the title for a record 3rd time. I feel Patterson's effort against Ellis in Stockholm in '68 was a much better effort in trying for the title a 3rd time. (you're a Bugner nut-hugger, I'm a Floyd nut-hugger )
I guess I'm still at a loss as to your assessment of Joe.

I never said that Bugner could beat Holmes or Norton. As for Floyd, he may have been one of the best of all-time in his weight range (no higher than 200 lbs, essentially a modern cruiserweight).

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by kenmore

I never said that Bugner could beat Holmes or Norton. As for Floyd, he may have been one of the best of all-time in his weight range (no higher than 200 lbs, essentially a modern cruiserweight).

Just imagine a hypothetical fight between Patterson and Holyfield at Cruiserweight ! A classic,imo.

As styles go,Bugner would definitely have given Foreman a good fight in '77,if Joe had been up for it. My money would have been on George though.

[kenmore]

Originally Posted by Stevie G

Just imagine a hypothetical fight between Patterson and Holyfield at Cruiserweight ! A classic,imo.

As styles go,Bugner would definitely have given Foreman a good fight in '77,if Joe had been up for it. My money would have been on George though.

If Bugner could have kept moving for 5 or 6 rounds, just to avoid being battered and stopped, then his chances would have skyrocketed in the second half of the fight.

I assume you saw Young-Foreman. Remember how, after the 8th round, Foreman lost steam and could barely lift his arms? Bugner would have had Foreman in more trouble than Young did, assuming the fight went that long.

But the big question is whether Bugner could last 5 or 6, just to get out of hot water.

Incidentally, after the Frazier fight, Andy Smith said that if Bugner had been facing Foreman that same day, Bugner would have won. According to Smith, Bugner was that much better at punching upward (against someone his own height), than at punching down (against someone like Frazier).