Roids in PRIDE AND UFC - How Many Were/Are Doping, Worst Offenders, Who is Clean?

[Stoo]

I simply countered the point that he's not aggressive and animalism any more. Maybe not AS...sure. Hell being wild and over agressive is what got him kodded against Leben and Rampage

http://www.fightreport.net/wp-conten...rlie-silva.gif

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And it's not a weird infatuation, you just happen to make ALOT of hypercritical statements and sweeping generalisations. Make of that what you will

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by Stoo

I simply countered the point that he's not aggressive and animalism any more. Maybe not AS...sure.

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Performances aside, he just wasn't anywhere near as aggressive in the UFC. He was still a slugger, but he simply didn't have that sense of barely-controlled animalistic rage.

So you now repeat the exact same fucking statement that I originally made back to me, yet you mocked me for suggesting it in the first place.

And you never try to claim that Wanderlei was clean in his PRIDE days, because you know damned well that the overwhelming likelihood is that he was roided to the gills.

And then in the same breath, you call me a hypocrite. Fucking retard.

[Stoo]

That's mainly due to the lack of stomps and soccer kicks which take away alot of what made him the Axe Murderer in the first place

And you edited out some of my post

Originally Posted by Stoo

Hell being wild and over agressive is what got him kodded against Leben and Rampage

And right on cue with the hypocritical statement, are you still medically diagnosed by a Professional as having a mental retardation?

[Lefthooktommy]

Originally Posted by Stoo

I simply countered the point that he's not aggressive and animalism any more. Maybe not AS...sure. Hell being wild and over agressive is what got him kodded against Leben and Rampage

http://www.fightreport.net/wp-conten...rlie-silva.gif

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

And it's not a weird infatuation, you just happen to make ALOT of hypercritical statements and sweeping generalisations. Make of that what you will

That has been Wanderlei's problem in the UFC. He tries to fight with too much aggression and gets caught coming in. In his past two fights he has taken a more strategic approach to attacking his opponent. In the Franklin fight he waited for Rich to throw then he countered and almost finished him off.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6...1o1_r1_500.gif

[Stoo]

Yeah, nearly dropped my fucking beer when he did that. I felt sure he'd catch Rich with a right and win the fight. Fair play to Ace though he weathered the storm there

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by Stoo

That's mainly due to the lack of stomps and soccer kicks which take away alot of what made him the Axe Murderer in the first place

And you edited out some of my post

Yeah while we're talking about editing bits out of posts, I also said in my post that the decline in aggression in and out of the ring could just as easily be due to simple ageing and maturing as he moved into his 30s.

Even scurla the world's ultimate authority said in the other thread that Wandy of 10 years ago "would have torn Franklin a new one" simply for randomly crossing paths at a casino before they were scheduled to fight. Why so aggressive a personality, then a sudden dropoff into a FAR more mellow type of guy? Into the type of guy who is noticably physically smaller and shrunken-looking, and who is even capable of sharing a van ride with Chael Sonnen and calmly and politely verbally warning him that his comments about Brazil are not widely appreciated?

But anyway, since you went out of your way to come into the thread and ridicule me, can we get a final statement from you?

Somebody offers you a million dollars for the correct answer. Was Wanderlei a heavy roids user in PRIDE and stopped/cut right down when he came to the UFC? Or was he not roided up in PRIDE? After a half-dozen posts, you still haven't addressed the thread topic at all.

[Lefthooktommy]

Yeah the beat down he put on Rich in that round really took a lot out of him. After Rich weathered the storm he took control of the fight and used good footwork to keep Wanderlei at bay. Respect to Rich for sure

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by Lefthooktommy

That has been Wanderlei's problem in the UFC. He tries to fight with too much aggression and gets caught coming in. In his past two fights he has taken a more strategic approach to attacking his opponent. In the Franklin fight he waited for Rich to throw then he countered and almost finished him off.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6...1o1_r1_500.gif

Yeah, it's a fair call. Leben I think he just had no respect for the guy's power though, and he got caught cold before he'd had time to properly warm up and get his body into the fight.

And he's never going to be anything but a brawler who wants to stand and trade. But in PRIDE he seemed a LOT more powerful and aggressive with it. Not just physically, but mentally he seemed far more intense. UFC Wanderlei looks like he's enjoying the event and the fight. PRIDE Wanderlei looks like he wants to kill a motherfucker.

Still, that proves nothing and it's just opinion. But it's an opinion that seems to be shared by a lot of people.

[Stoo]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Yeah while we're talking about editing bits out of posts, I also said in my post that the decline in aggression in and out of the ring could just as easily be due to simple ageing and maturing as he moved into his 30s.

Even scurla the world's ultimate authority said in the other thread that Wandy of 10 years ago "would have torn Franklin a new one" simply for randomly crossing paths at a casino before they were scheduled to fight.

You answered your own question there. But in the ring, he's still wild and aggressive, probably always will be

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Why so aggressive a personality, then a sudden dropoff into a FAR more mellow type of guy? Into the type of guy who is noticably physically smaller and shrunken-looking, and who is even capable of sharing a van ride with Chael Sonnen and calmly and politely verbally warning him that his comments about Brazil are not widely appreciated?

Age, he's mellowed since he's become a Father and he's not so heavily into the roids. The group bully mentality at Chute Boxe also played a big part in that

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

But anyway, since you went out of your way to come into the thread and ridicule me, can we get a final statement from you?

How exactly is posting in a sub forum that Ive been posting in since 08 going out of my way

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Somebody offers you a million dollars for the correct answer. Was Wanderlei a heavy roids user in PRIDE and stopped/cut right down when he came to the UFC? Or was he not roided up in PRIDE? After a half-dozen posts, you still haven't addressed the thread topic at all.

Well yes he was. Thought that was obvious to anyone. Others stated it already

Where's my million?

[Rainman]

I wouldn't be surprised if Wanderlai's aggression outside the ring was under orders from Pride. They had that Pro Wrestling mentality of "put on a show, fans want larger than life characters". Anyone have any stories of Wand's backstage behaviour? I've heard one or two but apparently there are tons.
Looks can be decieving with PEDs, just cause someone looks muscle bound doesn't mean they're using and just cuz someone looks 'regular' doesn't mean they're clean. I've heard a lot of conflicting reports re 'roid rage', some users think it's a myth.
Having said that I have always assumed EVERYONE in Pride was using. If you could afford it there would be no reason not to. If you were a star and fought regularly (Wand) then you'd have been almost foolish not to.

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by Stoo

You answered your own question there. But in the ring, he's still wild and aggressive, probably always will be

Yeah, it's called having a nuanced opinion. I'm not so simpleminded as to just say "It was roids" and ignore every other possible factor.

Originally Posted by Stoo

Age, he's mellowed since he's become a Father and he's not so heavily into the roids. The group bully mentality at Chute Boxe also played a big part in that

Great, so you agree that he was on roids, in fact you make a stronger statement about his roid usage than I did. You agree that he's clearly not as aggressive in or out of the cage. And you agree with me that there are factors other than roids in play as well. We are basically in complete agreement on the Wanderlei roids issue.

So why the fuck did you feel the need to run into the thread and start posting laughing emoticons at me and trying to ridicule me, like you do every time you see I've posted on this forum?

Originally Posted by Stoo

Well yes he was. Thought that was obvious to anyone. Others stated it already

So post your laughing emoticons at them, you fucking muppet.

[Stoo]

Well Haggis, as any retard can see I was addressing the point that he's not aggressive and animalistic in the Cage anymore...that's why I posted a gif of him RAPE choking a man and beating his face even after his eyes had rolled back into his skull

Lefthooktommy saw it, Scurla saw it...

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by Rainman

Having said that I have always assumed EVERYONE in Pride was using. If you could afford it there would be no reason not to. If you were a star and fought regularly (Wand) then you'd have been almost foolish not to.

And when the contracts flat out say "We don't care if you use performance-enhancing steroids", well you gotta assume that all the regulars took advantage of that. They sure as hell looked depleted when they came to a sanctioned sporting competition with an actual athletic commission overseeing them.

Makes you wonder just how good some of those UFC guys would have been. I mean, clean Forrest Griffin can beat up and submit clean Shogun. Roided Forrest would have been tearing shit up in PRIDE.

And can you even imagine what a 27 year old, roided to the gills Jon Jones would do in a PRIDE ring.

[Haggis McJackass]

Originally Posted by Stoo

Well Haggis, as any retard can see I was addressing the point that he's not aggressive and animalistic in the Cage anymore...that's why I posted a gif of him RAPE choking a man and beating his face even after his eyes had rolled back into his skull

The point that I never made?

The post in which I said he was not AS aggressive, then clarified in a follow-up sentence? The same point which you later repeated back to me in the same words as your own opinion?

[Stoo]

No the point you tried to dismiss by posting this

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

You realize I can post gifs of Jon Fitch pummelling somebody on the ground like that?

Look at the aggression! Look at the relentless ground and pound! This Jon Fitch character is a wrecking machine!

Yep...your right, a rape choke kod is very similar...


And again, Lefthooktommy saw it, Scurla saw it...