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Old 07-02-2012, 02:17 PM   #61
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Default Re: Sam Langford vs James Jeffries 1910

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That's where I read it.

Wasn't Ketchel on the hard stuff (opium?) by that time? He was probably just talking out his ass, making false boasts and the like, going off the rails...

Likewise, Gunboat Smith in all his bluster attributes his rendition of the San Fran fix story to "people in the know". He is quite insistent but also vague.
Not only on the hard stuff, I think he also had syphilis by that time.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:59 PM   #62
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Wow, and this coming from a lawyer.



Credit where credit is due.
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:14 PM   #63
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Default Re: Sam Langford vs James Jeffries 1910

Yup. And that should tell you something about how full of it boxing people can be.
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:26 PM   #64
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Default Re: Sam Langford vs James Jeffries 1910

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Yup. And that should tell you something about how full of it boxing people can be.
No doubt , but it was a good response Adam.
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:38 PM   #65
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Default Re: Sam Langford vs James Jeffries 1910

People love to hate on lawyers, and yet, when they need help, who do they call? Seems strange indeed.
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Old 07-02-2012, 06:36 PM   #66
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Default Re: Sam Langford vs James Jeffries 1910

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People love to hate on lawyers, and yet, when they need help, who do they call? Seems strange indeed.
I prefer to use Christian Science for all my legal proceedings.
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Old 07-03-2012, 03:22 AM   #67
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Default Re: Sam Langford vs James Jeffries 1910

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People love to hate on lawyers, and yet, when they need help, who do they call? Seems strange indeed.
Barristers in the UK probably have a better reputation for probity than lawyers in the US.

They dont go in for ambulance chasing to any great extent, neither are we a very litiginous nation compared to the US
As to calling them when in trouble, if it is a legal problem what choice would you have? They have enjoyed a closed shop for 200 years in my country.Until very recently a U K solicitor could not represent a client in court ,that was the sole prerogative of a lawyer.
Anyway enough , it was only a light hearted joke , one I am sure Seamus did not mean personally. Better to laugh with, than be laughed at don't you think?



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Old 07-22-2012, 01:45 PM   #68
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Default Re: Sam Langford vs James Jeffries 1910

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Cool down W. Tell me as you state about "a lot of fantasy matches pit 1 man in his prime against another man out of the ring for FIVE tears "?
Post me the numerous matches you cite above of one man in his prime against another man way out of his prime ?...Almost all great fantasy matches assume both fighters were at their bests...
I think fantasy matches between an out-of-prime great might and a lesser, but prime, fighter are something like handicapped horse races -- it's not necessarily to see who's the best horse, but to have a more interesting race and to make it a challenge to pick the winner.
Someone just posted 1951 Louis vs. 1919 Willard and 1923 Firpo. I'm pretty sure this was posted to determine whether Louis was a greater fighter than Willard or Firpo; it's more for the purpose of becoming what those boxers assets and liabilities were, at those particular points of their careers.
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Old 07-22-2012, 02:37 PM   #69
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Default Re: Sam Langford vs James Jeffries 1910

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Anyway enough , it was only a light hearted joke , one I am sure Seamus did not mean personally. Better to laugh with, than be laughed at don't you think?

Adam tossed a soft ball right over the plate. I couldn't resist.

He can cry all he wants. At the end of the day, he still gets my money!
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Old 07-22-2012, 03:31 PM   #70
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Default Re: Sam Langford vs James Jeffries 1910

Big Jeff was weakened by five years of relaxing on his alfalfa farm in California and had ballooned up to over 300lbs. He came

back under the utterly ridiculous premise of winning the title back for the white race. The real reason of course was for the greenbacks.

A scientific fighter like Johnson who was also similiar in size to Jeffries was all wrong for him. Jeff even humbly stated that he thought Johnson would have still beaten him in his prime. In 1910, Langford would have easily defeated Jeffries.
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Old 07-22-2012, 03:53 PM   #71
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Default Re: Sam Langford vs James Jeffries 1910

In 1910 Langford was still only 5'7" and 165-170 pounds. And he wasn't a defensive wizard like Johnson. Just because the best defensive fighter in the world made Jeff miss, doesn't mean a much smaller in every way Langford, who was not as brilliant defensively, would do the same. Totally different style of fighter. It is like B-Hop or Ward making offensive fighters look silly and miss everything, and then that same offensive fighter gets in there with a guy who will mix it or doesn't have the same amazing D, and suddenly the guy who looked silly in one fight looks great in another.
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Old 07-22-2012, 04:05 PM   #72
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Default Re: Sam Langford vs James Jeffries 1910

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In 1910 Langford was still only 5'7" and 165-170 pounds. And he wasn't a defensive wizard like Johnson. Just because the best defensive fighter in the world made Jeff miss, doesn't mean a much smaller in every way Langford, who was not as brilliant defensively, would do the same. Totally different style of fighter. It is like B-Hop or Ward making offensive fighters look silly and miss everything, and then that same offensive fighter gets in there with a guy who will mix it or doesn't have the same amazing D, and suddenly the guy who looked silly in one fight looks great in another.

Agreed in total. The question is whether Langford could pull off what Fitz could not and do enough damage before Jeffries get his momentum going. Both Sam and Fitz hit like trip hammers but Sam seemed more proactive in his offense to have a a higher output than Fitz. This is just a general sense from the little film we have and the news reports I've read. Do you get this same sense in your research? Could a guy who is a seek and destroy fighter do better than a trap-setter? Would Sam get conservative when facing a relative giant, as he did against Wills at times?
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Old 07-22-2012, 04:12 PM   #73
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Default Re: Sam Langford vs James Jeffries 1910

Langford would land hard punches and do significant damage to jeffries. The fight would continue, however, and jeffries would eventually impose himself on langford, beat him about the body and eventually stop him. If the fight were scheduled for 10, Jeffries would stop him in 9 or 10; for 15, he's stop him in 13-15. You see what i am getting at?
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:13 PM   #74
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Default Re: Sam Langford vs James Jeffries 1910

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In 1910 Langford was still only 5'7" and 165-170 pounds. And he wasn't a defensive wizard like Johnson. Just because the best defensive fighter in the world made Jeff miss, doesn't mean a much smaller in every way Langford, who was not as brilliant defensively, would do the same. Totally different style of fighter. It is like B-Hop or Ward making offensive fighters look silly and miss everything, and then that same offensive fighter gets in there with a guy who will mix it or doesn't have the same amazing D, and suddenly the guy who looked silly in one fight looks great in another.
Like you I think Jeffries was a force in his prime, but by 1910 I'm not even sure that his chin was what it had been.

If on the other hand you are right, and Jeffries could have beaten Langford in 1910, then Johnson should be getting a lot more credit for beating him!
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