Could Ali Get Away With This Against Wlad?

[Alcaldemb]

Originally Posted by tezel8764

I chose to make Gif's of Bugner due to the Height/Weight/Reach similarities to Wlad, the only other of Ali's opponents that are around the 6'4-6'7 range are Ernie Terrell. I think Ali is one of few Heavyweights I feel comfortable in suggesting he can outbox/outwork Wlad over 12 rounds, Wlad's chin is suspect?, Ali's is proven over many fights (even post-exile '75) against powerful punchers (Foreman, Lyle, Shavers,). But that does'nt mean he will completely KO Wlad in the first round. I think he can pull off some of these moves, he will take a lot of punches from Wladimir, but he has proven over time he can.

I'll give you Foreman as a puncher, but remember he was only 6'3" 220 in his prime, and not as fast or fluid as Wlad. Lyle? He had a 60% KO ratio. Shavers had a 76% KO ratio. Wladimir has an 83% KO ratio.

Keep in mind that Shavers was all of 6' and 205-210lbs in his prime, Lyle 6'3" and 215. Even Bugner was only 6'4" and 220. That simply isn't the same a 6'6" and 240-250, especially when Wladimir is more physically talented and more skilled then any of the above mentioned three fighters. Furthermore, as to Wlad's chin versus Ali's chin, keep in mind that Ali was often the bigger man in the ring but only managed a 57% KO ratio, so I just do not see his punching power being the deciding factor in a fighter versus an elite super heavy. Also remember that the average heavy today is in the 225-235 range, much bigger than Ali's time.

[Alcaldemb]

Originally Posted by piscator

Yeah? That's exactly what my Dad used to say, except it was: "Louis and Ali should not be in the same sentence together. Louis is leagues better than Ali."

We really should try to keep up to date on here.

No damnit, Dempsey is leagues better than Louis!

Maybe we can play this game going all the way back to Daniel Mendoza?

[Alcaldemb]

Originally Posted by Jаck

The only past ATG I'd slightly favour against Wlad is Lennox Lewis.

Lewis > Wlad > Ali

Seconding this

[theboss]

Originally Posted by Alcaldemb

No damnit, Dempsey is leagues better than Louis!

Maybe we can play this game going all the way back to Daniel Mendoza?

Exactly .

[Ali_]

Can people log on their alts to vote?

[exodus]

Originally Posted by piscator

Not me. I started watching in the '50's.

Wlad vs. Ali? My head says Ali gets his head knocked off, even in his prime. Wlad is too big, too skilled, too fast, too focused.

But my heart says Ali would figure out a way, pull a rabbit out of the hat, like he did with Foreman in Kinshasha. Ali was magic.

Wlad and Ali? Probably the two best heavyweights ever.

This.

Basically, the one thing that can't be quantified is Ali's determination.

Wlad is too big, too strong, too fast, too skilled, too athletic.

Ali is too strong willed, which he pays dearly for now, but it is the single most important attribute Ali had that could determine the outcome of the fight.

[exodus]

Originally Posted by Jаck

The only past ATG I'd slightly favour against Wlad is Lennox Lewis.

Lewis > Wlad > Ali

Smart man.

[floyd_g.o.a.t]

Could Ali beat Wlad? Yes, absolutely.

Will he be able to counter him and make him look foolish? I dont think so.

[Squire]

In this case I believe Ali and Wlad both excel at their own distinct styles to the point that there's no blueprint to go on for predicting how the fight pans out. Neither fighter has been even close to getting outboxed during their prime years, and I don't think this is a fight where it's going to be decided by one big shot, so it comes down to boxing and stamina for me. Maybe Ali was good enough to outbox Wlad and get the decision. I just can't visualise this one and at this level I don't think it's enough to just go on attributes

Originally Posted by borsuk

that's true. sadly it's all they've got. not their fault, of course, they beat what there is to beat, but don't mistake beating up the likes of thompson, haye and arreola with mixing with the likes of foreman, frazier and ali.

Let's stick with Wlad, rather than talking about both brothers and confusing things. Wlad's best wins are probably Byrd, Chagaev, Ibragimov, Haye and the first fight with Peter. Thompson is not one of Wladimir's absolute best opponents. I know Wlad's resume isn't as good as Ali's, but at least list Wlad's best wins when you mention Foreman and Frazier

Originally Posted by v2k987

A mechanical guy like Wlad would be figured out in a couple of rounds and then taken apart by Ali.

It's not really a question of figuring out. Everyone knows what Wlad does in the ring but nobody stops him doing it.

Mechanical, or textbook?

[exodus]

It's a fight that any honest objective mind can't determine with any certainty. Anyone who thinks this is a decisive outcome either way is either completely bias, completely clueless or trolling.

In the end, I think I slightly favour Wlad, but Ali's sheer determination could edge it out for him.

I really couldn't say.

[Ali_]

This thread is a joke. A pretty funny one.

Wlad is suddenly a better athlete than Ali!
Ali has never faced an athlete like Wlad? Ha.ha.ha. Ken Norton was x2 times the pure athlete and boxer that Wlad was hands down...but look at these idiots who want to believe different..
Frazier suddenly has 'bad defense' Thats rich...
Joe Bugner is suddenly a 'part time boxer' and being counted-out.. Bugner fought from his teenage years out far past his prime in the best Era of boxing, his career is full of victories that mirror or are better than Wlads but some suckers here think Bugner isn't any good. Bugner would have Wlads record easily in todays world...

then we got some clown who claims he started watching boxing in the 50's then put's Ali and Wlad in the same sentence as 'the best heavyweights'. If he isn't out right lying then he is proving that he is senile now, or has always been a bad boxing analyst.

Then you get all these pure idiots rambling off the names of boxing's famous fighters (Lyle, Terrell, Foreman) as somehow indicators to why Wlad stands a chance. These guys are the worst. Wlad has faced only ONE serious boxer in his entire life, a disinterested, unmotivated Lennox..and got TKO6. If Lennox actually had been in his prime he would have damn near killed Wlad, but people want to pretend he'd have a chance against Shavers, Liston, Norton..Frazier, Lyle, etc...

Ali was x2 athlete Wlad is, x2 times the fighter, x5 the champion, most of Ali's notable opposition couldn't even use 99.9% of Wlads opposition as sparring partners, Ali proved his could stand in wars with boxing's best and come out on top. In FOTC, in deep waters, championship rounds, Ali gets up from a punch that would have knockedout most fighters - after spending all of 1 second on the mat, to finish the fight strong...and you bums want to cast Wlad in his shadow?

Could Ali has done what he did to Bugner to Wlad? Sure he could have. It didn't win him the fight against Bugner -Ali's superior boxing skills did-, and it wouldn't 'win' the fight against Wlad but Ali's superior boxing skills would. Thats the answer to your question OP.

Has there ever been a more predictable heavyweight, a more methodical puncher than Wlad after the 60's? ...Probably not. If much of boxing is muscle memory + condition, and then skill..then there is absolutely 0 chance that Wlad beats Ali on points. None, what so ever. Ali would shuffle, float, right lead, stick and move and just pummel Wlad for 15 rounds...

Enjoy Klit where he is..In the worst era of heavyweight boxing the 'living' world has ever seen. Nothing is wrong with that. But don't pretend that Wlad matches up with the GOAT. Thats just stupidity. If Wlad was alive back then his record at best would have been alot like Bugners, and Bugner ending at 83-13 didn't do half bad.

[Drew101]

I used to believe that peak Ali would destroy Wlad, and I still believe he could probably do a number on the WK who was fighting in the early part of the last decade. But since Wlad has aligned with Steward he's become a different fighter in terms of approach and a better fighter for it.

At this point, my inclination is that this a nip and tuck affair where each round is decided by only a couple of clean punches. Since Ali was a master at catching the eyes of judges with his flurries, I'm inclined to give him the edge and predict that he'd fashion a close but clear UD over an always dangerous Wlad.

[Drew101]

Originally Posted by Ali_

This thread is a joke. A pretty funny one.

Wlad is suddenly a better athlete than Ali!
Ali has never faced an athlete like Wlad? Ha.ha.ha. Ken Norton was x2 times the pure athlete and boxer that Wlad was hands down...but look at these idiots who want to believe different..
Frazier suddenly has 'bad defense' Thats rich...
Joe Bugner is suddenly a 'part time boxer' and being counted-out.. Bugner fought from his teenage years out far past his prime in the best Era of boxing, his career is full of victories that mirror or are better than Wlads but some suckers here think Bugner isn't any good. Bugner would have Wlads record easily in todays world...

then we got some clown who claims he started watching boxing in the 50's then put's Ali and Wlad in the same sentence as 'the best heavyweights'. If he isn't out right lying then he is proving that he is senile now, or has always been a bad boxing analyst.

Then you get all these pure idiots rambling off the names of boxing's famous fighters (Lyle, Terrell, Foreman) as somehow indicators to why Wlad stands a chance. These guys are the worst. Wlad has faced only ONE serious boxer in his entire life, a disinterested, unmotivated Lennox..and got TKO6. If Lennox actually had been in his prime he would have damn near killed Wlad, but people want to pretend he'd have a chance against Shavers, Liston, Norton..Frazier, Lyle, etc...

Ali was x2 athlete Wlad is, x2 times the fighter, x5 the champion, most of Ali's notable opposition couldn't even use 99.9% of Wlads opposition as sparring partners, Ali proved his could stand in wars with boxing's best and come out on top. In FOTC, in deep waters, championship rounds, Ali gets up from a punch that would have knockedout most fighters - after spending all of 1 second on the mat, to finish the fight strong...and you bums want to cast Wlad in his shadow?

Could Ali has done what he did to Bugner to Wlad? Sure he could have. It didn't win him the fight against Bugner -Ali's superior boxing skills did-, and it wouldn't 'win' the fight against Wlad but Ali's superior boxing skills would. Thats the answer to your question OP.

The thread starter posed a legit question.

Bugner wasn't quite as tall as Wlad, and not nearly as powerful, but he was someone who used his height and worked off a pretty educated jab. Ali wasn't prime in this clip, but was still capable of countering the jab and reaching Bugner with the right. These clips beg the question of whether Ali would be capable of doing the same thing against a fighter who is a slightly taller and certainly harder punchingl version of the fighter Ali faced in that clip.

[dazl1212]

Originally Posted by Ali_

This thread is a joke. A pretty funny one.

Wlad is suddenly a better athlete than Ali!
Ali has never faced an athlete like Wlad? Ha.ha.ha. Ken Norton was x2 times the pure athlete and boxer that Wlad was hands down...but look at these idiots who want to believe different..
Frazier suddenly has 'bad defense' Thats rich...
Joe Bugner is suddenly a 'part time boxer' and being counted-out.. Bugner fought from his teenage years out far past his prime in the best Era of boxing, his career is full of victories that mirror or are better than Wlads but some suckers here think Bugner isn't any good. Bugner would have Wlads record easily in todays world...

then we got some clown who claims he started watching boxing in the 50's then put's Ali and Wlad in the same sentence as 'the best heavyweights'. If he isn't out right lying then he is proving that he is senile now, or has always been a bad boxing analyst.

Then you get all these pure idiots rambling off the names of boxing's famous fighters (Lyle, Terrell, Foreman) as somehow indicators to why Wlad stands a chance. These guys are the worst. Wlad has faced only ONE serious boxer in his entire life, a disinterested, unmotivated Lennox..and got TKO6. If Lennox actually had been in his prime he would have damn near killed Wlad, but people want to pretend he'd have a chance against Shavers, Liston, Norton..Frazier, Lyle, etc...

moron

[Ali_]

Originally Posted by dazl1212

moron

You know what, you are right.
It wasn't even Wlad that boxed Lennox, it was Vitali. Here I was thinking Wlad actually boxed someone. Nevermind.