Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-09-2012, 11:35 PM   #1
psychoshane
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 271
vCash: 500
Default Weight classes

If all these weight divisions are neccesary in boxing, why are they not needed in MMA? The UFC has far fewer weight classes than boxing.
psychoshane is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 07-09-2012, 11:47 PM   #2
Boxed Ears
Smugly Savvy Feelings
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pazinfowit, Esperantia
Posts: 24,841
vCash: 26665
Default Re: Weight classes

If it weren't for all these weight classes guys like Victor Ortiz would be smashing the piss out of smaller but more skilled guys like Floyd Mayweather Junior for the welterweight title.
Boxed Ears is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 11:52 PM   #3
LittleRed
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yoknapatawpha
Posts: 3,238
vCash: 475
Default Re: Weight classes

Personally I'm in favor of even more weight classes. Add Super heavyweight, reinstate paperweight. Maybe Jr cruiserweight.
LittleRed is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2012, 11:57 PM   #4
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 12,318
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Weight classes

The Classicist Agenda has taught me that weight classes are an arbitrary and oppressive construct of the Modernist.

Wilde KO5 Wlad Klitschko
Seamus is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 12:45 AM   #5
frankenfrank
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,508
vCash: 4120
Default Re: Weight classes

i believe that weights should b measured just prior entrance 2d ring , this way , every1 cutting weight and shit will have 2 take yet even greater risk and it will make this bad practice even less worthy .
D difference between fighting weight and weighing in weight must b eradicated .
Then , all fights would b able 2b held at a catchweight with no weight divisions at all .

But 4 those who love belts , lots of names and divisions , i think that very few if any (most probably none) of d divisions up 2 118 r redundant and that CW should b reinstated 2 190 lbs , with super CW ranging @ 190-205 , HW @ 205-220 and SHW @ 220 and above . any man able 2 make 220 without Xtreme starving (men like Orlin Norris , Chris Byrd , James Toney , Evander Holyfield , Mike Tyson , Michael Moorer , Michael Spinks and almost every notable heavyweight really) would have only himself 2 blame if he chooses 2 compete with d likes of Valuev , D Klitschkos , Lewis , Bowe etc and get crushed .
frankenfrank is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 01:19 PM   #6
Senor Pepe'
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,704
vCash: 500
Default Re: Weight classes

Correct,

The times have changed, and so should the weight classes.

Middleweight at 160 lbs. ----------- NOT ON THIS PLANET

Middleweight...................170 lbs.
Light-Heavyweight...........185 lbs.
Super '199'.....................199 lbs.
Heavyweight...................200+ lbs.

Lets not forget, if the weigh-in is the day before, a normal 205 to 210 lb. guy can make 199 lbs. 'easy'.

No need for a 'Super Heavyweight Division', as many 'good' Heavyweights can fight at 210 lbs.
The problem, is the skill level has faded with the 'big men'.
Senor Pepe' is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 03:12 PM   #7
Diagoras
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 136
vCash: 500
Default Re: Weight classes

Quote:
Originally Posted by psychoshane View Post
If all these weight divisions are neccesary in boxing, why are they not needed in MMA? The UFC has far fewer weight classes than boxing.
The Unified rules contain weight classes going up to:

1) 125 lb
2) 135 lb
3) 145 lb
4) 155 lb
5) 170 lb
6) 185 lb
7) 205 lb
265 lb
9) 265+ lb

In that same range boxing has:

1) 126lbs
2) 130lbs
3) 135lbs
4) 140lbs
5) 147lbs
6) 154lbs
7) 160lbs
168lbs
9) 175lbs
10) 200lbs
11) 200lbs+

Which means in the weight range covered by unified rules there are precisely two more weight classes in boxing than in MMA. What distorts the overall figures is that boxing takes account of fighters who weigh less than 125lbs and doesn't force them to fight out of their natural weight division.
Diagoras is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 03:21 PM   #8
Lord Tywin
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 797
vCash: 500
Default Re: Weight classes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
Correct,

The times have changed, and so should the weight classes.

Middleweight at 160 lbs. ----------- NOT ON THIS PLANET

Middleweight...................170 lbs.
Light-Heavyweight...........185 lbs.
Super '199'.....................199 lbs.
Heavyweight...................200+ lbs.

Lets not forget, if the weigh-in is the day before, a normal 205 to 210 lb. guy can make 199 lbs. 'easy'.

No need for a 'Super Heavyweight Division', as many 'good' Heavyweights can fight at 210 lbs.
The problem, is the skill level has faded with the 'big men'.

This makes no sense. Why recast the weightclasses? A middleweight is still a middleweight. The only problem is they now have so long to rehydrate, but thats the case across the board, even in the extremely low weight classes.

I think we should have less weight classes, less belts, and same day weigh ins. That clears up a ton of problems right there. Fifteen rounders wouldnt be a bad idea either, now that most fights are broadcast without commercials (the reason why they reduced the length in the first place).
Lord Tywin is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 03:31 PM   #9
Lord Tywin
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 797
vCash: 500
Default Re: Weight classes

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrank View Post
i believe that weights should b measured just prior entrance 2d ring , this way , every1 cutting weight and shit will have 2 take yet even greater risk and it will make this bad practice even less worthy .
D difference between fighting weight and weighing in weight must b eradicated .
Then , all fights would b able 2b held at a catchweight with no weight divisions at all .

But 4 those who love belts , lots of names and divisions , i think that very few if any (most probably none) of d divisions up 2 118 r redundant and that CW should b reinstated 2 190 lbs , with super CW ranging @ 190-205 , HW @ 205-220 and SHW @ 220 and above . any man able 2 make 220 without Xtreme starving (men like Orlin Norris , Chris Byrd , James Toney , Evander Holyfield , Mike Tyson , Michael Moorer , Michael Spinks and almost every notable heavyweight really) would have only himself 2 blame if he chooses 2 compete with d likes of Valuev , D Klitschkos , Lewis , Bowe etc and get crushed .

But those big guys are all beatable by smaller men, its just that the smaller men suck these days. Valuev was beaten by Haye (Well it was a robbery) and Holyfield (well, that was a robbery too). Vitali was beaten by Byrd. Wlad was beaten by Sanders and Brewster (both of whom weighed 225 and 226 respectively and could have easily made your 220), Lewis was beaten by Holyfield in the second fight (217), and McCall and Mercer while weighing in the 230s werent huge HWs. Bowe was defeated by Holyfield and given hell in their other fights (Holy weighed 205 in the first). I admit these big athletes size complicates matters but they certainly arent unbeatable. I dont see the need for a new division.

What is the problem with having a big strong fighter in a certain weigh class fighting a fighter in his weight class who is smaller and faster, utilizing skill and speed? Thats how it used to be and it bred better fighters who were more well rounded. Nowadays everybody wants to fight fighters exactly their size, with the same measurements, and dont even throw in a left hander or a guy with a style youve never seen before. Fighters just cant think on their feet anymore. The sport is so watered down we could go on and on.
Lord Tywin is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 04:03 PM   #10
Senor Pepe'
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,704
vCash: 500
Default Re: Weight classes

You need the lower weights, especially in the Orient and Latin America.

Since those areas pay the bills, they can have as many weight divisions as they want.

No matter the name, division weights at;

* 124 lbs.
* 130 lbs.
* 136 lbs.
* 143 lbs.
* 150 lbs.
* 160 lbs.
* 170 lbs.
* 185 lbs.
* 199 lbs. 'Super 199'
* 200+ lbs.

Is about as good as any '10' that I have seen.
Senor Pepe' is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 06:38 PM   #11
jowcol
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,141
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Weight classes

Expanded weight classes are why I pissed off boxing in the early 90's save for the occasional ''big'' bout.
Get used to it, it's all about the almighty buck, not to mention the 4-6 boxing bodies out there that have there own champ (not to mention 40-60 "top 10?" contenders with each body? )
But its that way in all sports nowadays.
Money, money, money....BS.

I remember dad taking me the barber shop in the early 60's as a young buck and reading Ring Magazine's top ten in all divisions. Everything was so simple and pure in those days. Everyone knew the champs and the top contenders in every division. I repeat myself, its why I've basically pissed off boxing.
Wish you young bucks had been around in those days....
jowcol is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 10:56 PM   #12
Saintpat
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,163
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Weight classes

The other thing to consider is that MMA is in its infancy. You have guys fighting for and winning belts with a handful of fights. Brock Lesnar goes from pro debut to world champ in a blink of an eye. Why? Because there is no depth in the sport -- it would be hard to fill out a top 10 with more divisions, and the rankings are already full of guys with records like 8-1 or 16-6 who would be considered either low undercard guys or journeymen in boxing.
Saintpat is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 05:02 AM   #13
frankenfrank
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,508
vCash: 4120
Default Re: Weight classes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Tywin View Post
But those big guys are all beatable by smaller men, its just that the smaller men suck these days. Valuev was beaten by Haye (Well it was a robbery) and Holyfield (well, that was a robbery too). Vitali was beaten by Byrd. Wlad was beaten by Sanders and Brewster (both of whom weighed 225 and 226 respectively and could have easily made your 220), Lewis was beaten by Holyfield in the second fight (217), and McCall and Mercer while weighing in the 230s werent huge HWs. Bowe was defeated by Holyfield and given hell in their other fights (Holy weighed 205 in the first). I admit these big athletes size complicates matters but they certainly arent unbeatable. I dont see the need for a new division.

What is the problem with having a big strong fighter in a certain weigh class fighting a fighter in his weight class who is smaller and faster, utilizing skill and speed? Thats how it used to be and it bred better fighters who were more well rounded. Nowadays everybody wants to fight fighters exactly their size, with the same measurements, and dont even throw in a left hander or a guy with a style youve never seen before. Fighters just cant think on their feet anymore. The sport is so watered down we could go on and on.
a lot of double standards in your post here . sometimes u choose 2 go with d judge's decisions (and even openly state that u disagree with it) and sometimes u don't . Bowe wasn't beaten by Holyfield in their 2nd fight , nor was Holyfield beaten by Moorer in their 1st , and Valuev's fights vs Haye (probably) but certainly Holyfield were circus acts in which he just tried not 2 hurt his opponents while trying 2 seem like fighting (U forgot Chagaev , but it's d same case as Holyfield) .

Also , if some1 decides 2 challenge d bigger guys it should b on his own responsibility . But as long as u go by weight classes , at least don't force d smaller guys 2 fight d bigger guys when they want 2 win belts which is d state currently and always was really (at least potentially) .
I haven't watched Mercer vs Lewis but i read some disagreements with your statement here . And implicitly equating his outcome vs Lewis with McCall's vs Lewis is bad .
Whenver there r enough big enough guys with a sufficient enough talent (2 make it unfair 2 smaller men) a new division should b created 4 them 2 maintain competitiveness . D Klitschkos r d Ricardo Lopez's of their division . True that prime McCall , Sanders and maybe Brewster (maybe only against Vitali and barely vs Wladimir) could have beaten d Klitschkos , but it's only due 2 their own quality .
And then again , Y not leave d choice 4 them ? let them fight men their own size and fight d monsters only if they really want it . At least as long as there r "important" belts 2 toy with , at least allow them d chance of winning 1 belt at their own size , then if they really feel like it , let them risk their health even much more and fight monsters .
And regarding cutting weight , d weight should b also monitored 4 a while prior 2 entrance 2d ring and by d time of d entrance as well . This way , only trimming down would b allowed , with dehydration almost completely abolished , and at least shrinked 2 much lesser Xtents .

Last edited by frankenfrank; 07-11-2012 at 06:04 AM.
frankenfrank is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 07:41 AM   #14
Senor Pepe'
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,704
vCash: 500
Default Re: Weight classes

Young Amateur boxers (the future professionals) had recently come up with their own
divisions, and weight classes.

* 107 lbs. ......... Paperweight
* 111 lbs. ..........'Triple 1'
* 115 lbs. .......... Flyweight
* 120 lbs. .......... Bantamweight
* 126 lbs. ......... Featherweight
* 132 lbs. ......... Lightweight
* 138 lbs. ......... '38 Special'
* 144 lbs. ......... 'Magnum 44'
* 152 lbs. ......... Welterweight
* 160 lbs. ......... Middleweight

Last edited by Senor Pepe'; 07-11-2012 at 11:23 AM.
Senor Pepe' is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2012, 09:29 PM   #15
psychoshane
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 271
vCash: 500
Default Re: Weight classes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintpat View Post
The other thing to consider is that MMA is in its infancy. You have guys fighting for and winning belts with a handful of fights. Brock Lesnar goes from pro debut to world champ in a blink of an eye. Why? Because there is no depth in the sport -- it would be hard to fill out a top 10 with more divisions, and the rankings are already full of guys with records like 8-1 or 16-6 who would be considered either low undercard guys or journeymen in boxing.
Apples and oranges. MMA has a very different rule set. What if there was no standing 8 count in boxing? What if fighters were allowed to strike a downed opponent in boxing? How many undefeated boxers would there be then?
psychoshane is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013