Who is the greatest MMA fighter ever?

[Haggis McJackass]

Modern guys don't have as much opportunity to fight K1 champions, judo gold medal winners etc, because the game has changed. Instead of fighting a guy who has trained one discipline his entire life, gone as far as he can there and then switched to MMA, they face guys who have trained MMA for most/all of their careers.

This has pros and cons. It sounds great to say that you beat a world champion kickboxer. But maybe that kickboxer can KO anyone in a striking match, yet has no clue at all how to survive if the fight goes to the ground. A fighter who is a monster at one discipline may become an easy win if taken out of his element.

Who is tougher to beat? The guy who has A+ level striking, D-level wrestling and D-level grappling? Or the guy whose skillset is B-level wrestling, B-level striking and B-level grappling? It all depends. There is no right answer. A tough guy is a tough guy, and a bad style matchup is a bad style matchup.

[rekcutnevets]

Originally Posted by Kittikasem

In MMA terms (since that's the sport we are discussing here), do you not consider Vitor Belfort a high level striker, maybe Thiago Alves as well? They don't have the external credentials of someone like Hunt, but they have both stopped some top guys in MMA and are both striking specialists. I don't think it's necessarily right to focus and judge purely on external credentials.

Belfort and Alves are good mma strikers, but that is not what I'm trying to do.

I'm not focusing purely on external credentials. I'm focusing on fighters that have had success in mma, and then classifying them by their external background to show how each of these fighters have dealt with different styles.

If I were analyzing Couture's fights in this manner, I would not include James Toney in the world class striker category because he has no mma credentials. That's why you don't see me trying to find a place to put Ogawa's judo credentials. Ogawa has no mma credentials. Ogawa doesn't have any good credentials, I should say.

For whatever the reason, Fedor is the only one of the 4 that I was analyzing that has faced actual world class strikers that have accomplished something in mma. I would also like to point out he defeated them in a ring, which is a striker's preferred setting. There is a reason that Rorion chose a cage for UFC I as opposed to a mat or ring.

I was also wanting to highlight their finishing rates. I realize this is a sport, but it is also a fight. Finishing your opponent inside the distance trumps a hard fought decision, dull decision, or any sort of decision.

[chitoizu]

Originally Posted by Kittikasem

The 14 ATGs of MMA in order:

1.Fedor
2.Anderson
3.GSP
4.Big Nog
5.Hendo
6.Penn
7.Hughes
8.Sakuraba
9.Wanderlei
10.Shogun
11.Rampage
12.Chuck
13.Crocop
14.Couture

[Matty lll]

I have to go with Anderson Silva, beating Sonnen just pushed him past Fedor for me.

[monaroCountry]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Modern guys don't have as much opportunity to fight K1 champions, judo gold medal winners etc, because the game has changed. Instead of fighting a guy who has trained one discipline his entire life, gone as far as he can there and then switched to MMA, they face guys who have trained MMA for most/all of their careers.

This has pros and cons. It sounds great to say that you beat a world champion kickboxer. But maybe that kickboxer can KO anyone in a striking match, yet has no clue at all how to survive if the fight goes to the ground. A fighter who is a monster at one discipline may become an easy win if taken out of his element.

Who is tougher to beat? The guy who has A+ level striking, D-level wrestling and D-level grappling? Or the guy whose skillset is B-level wrestling, B-level striking and B-level grappling? It all depends. There is no right answer. A tough guy is a tough guy, and a bad style matchup is a bad style matchup.

Yeah and we have all see how good all these new breeds are all around. JDS for example hates grappling and someone like Brock just hates getting punched. Has Cain even got ONE submission win?

MMA has devolved intro jab wrestlers.

[monaroCountry]

Originally Posted by rekcutnevets

If I were analyzing Couture's fights in this manner, I would not include James Toney in the world class striker category because he has no mma credentials. That's why you don't see me trying to find a place to put Ogawa's judo credentials. Ogawa has no mma credentials. Ogawa doesn't have any good credentials, I should say.

A younger, hungrier, faster, more powerful, younger James Toney would have been better.

Credentials in MMA or in Judo? If a 7-2 isnt good then many UFC fighters wont be good fighters. Also look at two of his submission losses, getting submitted against those two isnt shameful.

For whatever the reason, Fedor is the only one of the 4 that I was analyzing that has faced actual world class strikers that have accomplished something in mma. I would also like to point out he defeated them in a ring, which is a striker's preferred setting. There is a reason that Rorion chose a cage for UFC I as opposed to a mat or ring.

Wrestle jabbers with no cardio and little ringmanship prefer the cage.

[monaroCountry]

Originally Posted by chitoizu

I would have Igor in the top 5

[Deckard]

This man:

http://extra.globo.com/incoming/5435...on-silva-2.jpg

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Originally Posted by Deckard

This man:

http://extra.globo.com/incoming/5435...on-silva-2.jpg

wow, that´s a nice picture.

[Deckard]

He looks a bit like Chappelle impersonating a crack addict.

[dillinja]

Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass

Modern guys don't have as much opportunity to fight K1 champions, judo gold medal winners etc, because the game has changed. Instead of fighting a guy who has trained one discipline his entire life, gone as far as he can there and then switched to MMA, they face guys who have trained MMA for most/all of their careers.

This has pros and cons. It sounds great to say that you beat a world champion kickboxer. But maybe that kickboxer can KO anyone in a striking match, yet has no clue at all how to survive if the fight goes to the ground. A fighter who is a monster at one discipline may become an easy win if taken out of his element.

Who is tougher to beat? The guy who has A+ level striking, D-level wrestling and D-level grappling? Or the guy whose skillset is B-level wrestling, B-level striking and B-level grappling? It all depends. There is no right answer. A tough guy is a tough guy, and a bad style matchup is a bad style matchup.

The modern mma fighters is harder all roudn to beat but alot are lacking in the core skills that the k1, olympic guys had so if you have a tgood all around game the more well rounded guy is actually and easier fight imo.

[rekcutnevets]

Originally Posted by monaroCountry

A younger, hungrier, faster, more powerful, younger James Toney would have been better.

Credentials in MMA or in Judo? If a 7-2 isnt good then many UFC fighters wont be good fighters. Also look at two of his submission losses, getting submitted against those two isnt shameful.

I don't care how young Toney would have been. A win over him means next to nothing in mma, because he has done nothing in mma.

Let's look at Ogawa's resume. Out of Ogawa's 7 victories, 6 of those opponents combine for a record of 3-21. The other win was against Gary Goodridge. So I'm sticking with my opinion of Ogawa not doing much in mma.

For a quick comparison, your boy Brock's 5 wins came over opponent's that combine for a record of 78-40. In fact, Lesnar's debut was against a guy that was 3-7. Hell, that guy has as many wins as 6 of Ogawa's 7 opponents with only 1/3rd of the losses.