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Old 03-01-2008, 03:59 PM   #136
C. M. Clay II
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

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Originally Posted by janitor
Not if Louis can hit him from somwhere where he cant hit back from. This is basicaly how Holyfield beat Tyson.
Holyfield beat Tyson because of what Tyson didn't do. He didn't throw body shots (except in like the 5th round, which he won), nor did he throw mroe than one punch at a time. If this version of Tyson fought Louis, Joe would destroy him but this is not the Tyson we are talking about.
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Old 03-01-2008, 04:24 PM   #137
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

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Originally Posted by C. M. Clay II
Holyfield beat Tyson because of what Tyson didn't do. He didn't throw body shots (except in like the 5th round, which he won), nor did he throw mroe than one punch at a time. If this version of Tyson fought Louis, Joe would destroy him but this is not the Tyson we are talking about.
He might just "not do" certain crucial things against Louis.

I will say however that you are thinking along the right lines in terms of getting a Tyson victory. Perhaps he should have you in his corner for this fight.
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Old 03-01-2008, 04:43 PM   #138
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

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Originally Posted by janitor
He might just "not do" certain crucial things against Louis.

I will say however that you are thinking along the right lines in terms of getting a Tyson victory. Perhaps he should have you in his corner for this fight.
One of the things Tyson lost after he came from prison was his stamina. that's why he became a one-punch fighter in the 90s. He would gass out after the first four rounds of a fight and would resort to head-hunting and throwing one-punch at a time, like he did against Holyfield. The pre-prison Tyson was a different animal altogether.
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Old 03-01-2008, 08:38 PM   #139
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

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Originally Posted by Sonny's jab
What is this ?
JT wants me to mention exact seconds when it happened, which seems slighly obssessive.
And you want me to define simple concepts.

???

For some reason, I sense my contributions on this thread are unwelcome.

The main gist of what I was really saying was that Louis could hit and hurt Tyson. And that Tyson could hit and hurt Louis. But for some unknown reason minor details of my post are being scrutinize even though no one actually contradicts them.

"Punches landed" means "punches landed".


I don't have the time right now but have watched 3/4 of the fight and will make my honest assessment after golf this arve - both ways. I'll also answer your other post.

Tho i come across a bit forward (It was MY Saturday night after all ) i think with such readily watchable fights it's fair to at the very least name a round where something we have talked about occurred. This guarantee's fact and substance and we can all see what is being talked about. I must admit watching the fight again was enlightening in a few ways. I never realised, after all his moaning about Holyfield, just how fukking bad Tyson was for butting

Thomas must have felt like he fought a Ram
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Old 03-01-2008, 08:40 PM   #140
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

Oh and apologies if i came across a bit forward, Jimmy had me quite happy
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Old 03-02-2008, 09:27 AM   #141
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

SONNY -

My take home points

Brutal first round, with Thomas taking some seriously heavy artillery. It may have even been you started a thread or made comment a while back Thomas has an underrated chin and it is one of the best you've seen. This round and fight definitely shows his chin to be superb. Tyson puts forth his usual awesome barrage in this round.

Tyson see's punches well and is very hard to hit early here. Did Thomas' last right hand, JUST before the bell, after Tyson had ducked the same just prior, get thru? It's a difficult angle on my coverage but i think it may have caught Tyson possibly as high as the forehead?

I couldn't believe Thomas half heartedly led when Tyson turned southpaw, feeding right into the sweeping left he wanted to throw.

Second round shows Thomas with busier hands than in the first, a couple of nice jabs. Tyson's rythmn is disrupted a bit and he also starts to lunge with huge swings here and there. Inside Tyson shows he is pretty average for a man of his dimensions, tied up easy and not busy enough in there.

Tyson butting a bit in the third. Thomas moves ok early with Tyson missing.

Decent little salvo from Thomas at 0.56 in the 4th. Bounce off Tyson but a clean shot or two never the less. Big uppercut late from Tyson but taken well. Thomas doing just enough to be quite awkward here.

If Thomas had a bit more snap and power in his punches it would be interesting. What i do like is that he is letting quite a bit go, sitting too much is suicide vs Tyson. Again Tyson is definitely butting more than i remember.

Tyson lands some huge punches in the last and shows awesome finishing ability. Puts a seal on what was quite an awkward fight at times.

Tyson shows both his strengths and his weaknesses here. He's quite lazy inside, can indeed be hit by an opponent willing to put forth decent output, and loses his way a little under such a scenario. His great power and handspeed is on display, and his finish was 10 out of 10. Tyson - Louis is definitely an open affair. Louis must wade thru Tyson's early offense, preferably by timing Tyson and demanding respect with his own scything counters. Not an easy job vs such speed and power, but Louis is certainly the straighter puncher on the most part. A great matchup.
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Old 03-02-2008, 10:14 AM   #142
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

Thanks, JohnThomas.

Yes, Tyson supporters who cry about Holyfield's butting and claim that Tyson never resorted to fouling in his prime have always amused me. Tyson was a dirty fighter.

Hey, your insistence that I provide references for landed punches was fair, but just a bit frustrating because I'm away from my DVD collection at the present time.

Thomas never hurt Tyson at all, and apart from his toughness he didn't make it particularly two-sided. But he came to fight, threw some punches, and landed some. I thought he won only one of the rounds, where Tyson just rested and walked forward. Tyson's performance (and esp. the finish) was, in the final ****ysis, brilliant.

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Old 03-02-2008, 10:33 AM   #143
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

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Originally Posted by Sonny's jab
Thanks, JohnThomas.

Yes, Tyson supporters who cry about Holyfield's butting and claim that Tyson never resorted to fouling in his prime have always amused me. Tyson was a dirty fighter.

Hey, your insistence that I provide references for landed punches was fair, but just a bit frustrating because I'm away from my DVD collection at the present time.

Thomas never hurt Tyson at all, and apart from his toughness he didn't make it particularly two-sided. But he came to fight, threw some punches, and landed some. I thought he won only one of the rounds, where Tyson just rested and walked forward. Tyson's performance (and esp. the finish) was, in the final ****ysis, brilliant.

Fair comments. I was into about JD number 12 so didn't exactly come across that well. As well as Tyson fought i have to be honest and say at various times thru this bout i thought Holmes would beat this version, the best version, of Tyson. Thomas wasn't exactly the greatest mover and the few times he presented some lateral movement Tyson missed by quite some margin. I think Holmes lateral movement, jab, uppercut, cross and survival instincts make him a superb pick, tho many disagree. He also has that stamina and great will to win that would serve him immensely in latter rounds, which i am sure he would get to.
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