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Old 07-16-2012, 02:42 PM   #1
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Default Full Timeline of Dempsey-Wills - Evidence of Dempsey-Wills Contract Photo Staged?

This report shows the timeline, including legal cases of Wills campaigning to get his shot.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by klompton View Post
I didnt state it was staged. I stated that that signing (the one with Floyd Fitzsimmons) was tantamount to a payoff of step aside money to Wills. Fitzsimmons was a close friend of Dempsey's (Dempsey had once given his own car to Floyd's wife) and wrote a contract that no promoter in the world at that time could have fulfilled allowing Dempsey to walk away from the Wills fight and allowing Wills to take home $50,000.

The other "contract" Dempsey signed. Which wasnt really a contract was admitted by Dempsey in his bio to have been written in a manner that allowed him out of it. A quick newspaper search will show you that it was not a contract. It was simply an "agreement" that stated Dempsey "would" fight Wills within sixty days of the signing if a promoter made Dempsey a "favorable" offer. There was no date for the fight, no site, no promoter, and no guidelines stating what Dempsey or Kearns would consider favorable. In essence a promoter could offer them a $10,000,000 purse and they could walk away saying it was unfavorable. Thats just what they did (not that they were offered ten million) because no promoter could stage such an event within sixty days and Dempsey and Kearns wouldnt accept ANY monetary offer. So they walked away.

And you are exactly right about the commission. Dempsey always blamed the New York commission for barring a Wills fight. However, this is bullshit. After Tamany Hall won back the govt in 1922/1923 it was populated by progressives who were very eager to get the black vote. They pushed and pushed and pushed for a Dempsey-Wills bout. Regardless of the racial views of the Athletic commission there were literally tons of venues that were offering to host the match both inside and outside the country.
So let's get this straight, Dempsey or his management stalled and made excuses for years months. Dempsey says Wills will never get a shot at the title after Wills tries to get an injunction on Dempsey defending against Firpo. The commision is sued and forced to

On receiving a ruling amounting to stripping Dempsey of his title Dempsey (according to researcher Klompton) signs with a contract with person friend in Floyd Fitzsimmons for the Wills bout.

Wills is the second biggest draw of the era yet the 1 promoter Dempsey trusts and who financed the Miske fight can't get funds to promote the super fight of the era? Dempsey's cheque bounces yet the man suing him in Wills, check gets paid? It sounds an awful lot like step aside money

Years later Dempsey is on record as saying Fitzsimmons sued him for not honouring the contract. The following report on Fitzsimmons death though notes he was 'a life long friend of Jack Dempsey'.

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Conveniently Dempsey gets an out, is allowed to keep his title and fight other opponents. Why not find another promoter? It's either out and out avoidance from him or his management or powerful men been against a mixed race bout.
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:44 PM   #2
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Default Re: Full Timeline of Dempsey-Wills - Evidence of Dempsey-Wills Contract Photo Staged?

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Old 07-16-2012, 02:46 PM   #3
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Default Re: Full Timeline of Dempsey-Wills - Evidence of Dempsey-Wills Contract Photo Staged?

There was deffinitely very organised opposition to the bout at the highest levels of the sport.
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Old 07-16-2012, 07:40 PM   #4
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Default Re: Full Timeline of Dempsey-Wills - Evidence of Dempsey-Wills Contract Photo Staged?

It's really too bad that Klompton doesn't post here anymore.
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Old 07-16-2012, 08:39 PM   #5
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Default Re: Full Timeline of Dempsey-Wills - Evidence of Dempsey-Wills Contract Photo Staged?

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Originally Posted by Brownies View Post
It's really too bad that Klompton doesn't post here anymore.
He's active on the boxrec forum
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:58 AM   #6
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Default Re: Full Timeline of Dempsey-Wills - Evidence of Dempsey-Wills Contract Photo Staged?

Klompton's post doesn't say much.
What offer did Dempsey turn down ?

I don't quite understand the bit about Floyd Fitzsimmons, a boxing promoter, wording an unfullfillable contract for other promoters to try to fullfill at his own expense - as a complete sham - out of friendship for Dempsey ? (or was it in return for a car allegedly gifted to his wife ??)
Wills makes a profit ... Fitz and Dempsey lose out ?
Or did Fitz get paid ? How did he make his return ?
Was this car worth $50k ?
Was Jack ****ing Floyd's wife ?
Was Floyd Fitz an idiot ?
Wouldn't it have been better to tell Wills to **** himself ?


Is this just another loosely-constructed theory from klompton ?
Throwing in his biased estimate of the players' motives with his well-researched factual findings ?

If you take out the loaded statements, biased speculation and assumptions and just look at the hard facts, there's really not much being said.

.... Yes, Dempsey signed those contracts.
No, they weren't rock-solid detailed final contracts for a fight.
Yes, the fight did not materialise.
That's it.


There was a Wills fight contract that Dempsey allegedly signed in 1925 or '26 that he broke with Chicago Coliseum, and fought Tunney instead (for Rickard). That one went to court. They sued for breach of contract. I think Dempsey was found to be in the wrong.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:14 AM   #7
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Default Re: Full Timeline of Dempsey-Wills - Evidence of Dempsey-Wills Contract Photo Staged?

It was the times, after Jack Johnson everyone was afraid of a black man fighting for the heavyweight championship of the world. Dempsey wasn't afraid of Wills
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:34 AM   #8
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Default Re: Full Timeline of Dempsey-Wills - Evidence of Dempsey-Wills Contract Photo Staged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend X View Post
Klompton's post doesn't say much.
What offer did Dempsey turn down ?

I don't quite understand the bit about Floyd Fitzsimmons, a boxing promoter, wording an unfullfillable contract for other promoters to try to fullfill at his own expense - as a complete sham - out of friendship for Dempsey ? (or was it in return for a car allegedly gifted to his wife ??)
Wills makes a profit ... Fitz and Dempsey lose out ?
Or did Fitz get paid ? How did he make his return ?
Was this car worth $50k ?
Was Jack ****ing Floyd's wife ?
Was Floyd Fitz an idiot ?
Wouldn't it have been better to tell Wills to **** himself ?


Is this just another loosely-constructed theory from klompton ?
Throwing in his biased estimate of the players' motives with his well-researched factual findings ?

If you take out the loaded statements, biased speculation and assumptions and just look at the hard facts, there's really not much being said.

.... Yes, Dempsey signed those contracts.
No, they weren't rock-solid detailed final contracts for a fight.
Yes, the fight did not materialise.
That's it.


There was a Wills fight contract that Dempsey allegedly signed in 1925 or '26 that he broke with Chicago Coliseum, and fought Tunney instead (for Rickard). That one went to court. They sued for breach of contract. I think Dempsey was found to be in the wrong.
LX,so everyone in that photo was a conspirator in a devious plot hatched by the promotor Floyd Fitzimmons, who knowingly screwed many of his investors from their money just to APPEASE Harry Wills braintrust ???
What a load of baloney...Are these people denying the darn fact that the NY Boxing Commission would not sanction this bout between Harry Wills a black [and worthy man] and Jack Dempsey the titleholder for VALID FEAR of a repercussion of the race riots and deaths following the Jeffries/ Johnson bout in Reno years before ? This fear was in the minds of all the top boxing promoters in the land, knowing that the risk of deaths was not worth the reward...Floyd Fitzimmons, took that risk, accumulated some investors, but could not get additional investors to come on board and he and others lost their deposit money...So the photo showing the signing between Wills and Dempsey was REAL, and was not a ploy to appease the Harry Wills camp...
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:36 AM   #9
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Default Re: Full Timeline of Dempsey-Wills - Evidence of Dempsey-Wills Contract Photo Staged?

I'm sure the concern over race riots was real. I'm sure they were real for Johnson-Kauffman, Johnson-Willard and Burns-Johnson too, all fights that were successfully made.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:51 AM   #10
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Default Re: Full Timeline of Dempsey-Wills - Evidence of Dempsey-Wills Contract Photo Staged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
I'm sure the concern over race riots was real. I'm sure they were real for Johnson-Kauffman, Johnson-Willard and Burns-Johnson too, all fights that were successfully made.
The racial situation had deteriorated since then and preventing race riots had become more of a political emergency since 1919.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:56 AM   #11
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Default Re: Full Timeline of Dempsey-Wills - Evidence of Dempsey-Wills Contract Photo Staged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend X View Post
The racial situation had deteriorated since then and preventing race riots had become more of a political emergency since 1919.
I think 1910 was the high water-mark for sports related incidents. Nothing to my knoweldge equals the Watts riots though? Which came many years later?
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:01 AM   #12
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Default Re: Full Timeline of Dempsey-Wills - Evidence of Dempsey-Wills Contract Photo Staged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
LX,so everyone in that photo was a conspirator in a devious plot hatched by the promotor Floyd Fitzimmons, who knowingly screwed many of his investors from their money just to APPEASE Harry Wills braintrust ???
That's not my assessment.

Quote:
What a load of baloney...Are these people denying the darn fact that the NY Boxing Commission would not sanction this bout between Harry Wills a black [and worthy man] and Jack Dempsey the titleholder for VALID FEAR of a repercussion of the race riots and deaths following the Jeffries/ Johnson bout in Reno years before ? This fear was in the minds of all the top boxing promoters in the land, knowing that the risk of deaths was not worth the reward...Floyd Fitzimmons, took that risk, accumulated some investors, but could not get additional investors to come on board and he and others lost their deposit money...So the photo showing the signing between Wills and Dempsey was REAL, and was not a ploy to appease the Harry Wills camp...

This is probably a large part of what happened.
Anyway, Dempsey always said he'd fight Wills if a promoter came good with a reasonable offer.For all the talk of him ducking Wills "for seven straight years", I don't see much talk of all the offers he turned down.

I do believe Dempsey chose to fight #2 contender Tunney over #1 contender Wills in 1926, and Wills deserved the shot. Ironically, Wills would have been the easier fight.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:11 AM   #13
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Default Re: Full Timeline of Dempsey-Wills - Evidence of Dempsey-Wills Contract Photo Staged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend X View Post
I do believe Dempsey chose to fight #2 contender Tunney over #1 contender Wills in 1926, and Wills deserved the shot. Ironically, Wills would have been the easier fight.
Rickard seems to have pressured him to take the Tunney fight instead of fighting Wills.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:20 AM   #14
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Default Re: Full Timeline of Dempsey-Wills - Evidence of Dempsey-Wills Contract Photo Staged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
I think 1910 was the high water-mark for sports related incidents. Nothing to my knoweldge equals the Watts riots though? Which came many years later?
The summer of 1919 was horrendous for race riots. Widespread race riots.

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Summer_of_1919[/ame]


The Tulsa incident of 1921 was horrific too.

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot[/ame]


This is what was happening smack bang in the time when 'Jack Dempsey should have been fighting Harry Wills' and a mere 10 years after Johnson and Jeffries proved that a publicized prize fight could trigger deadly riots.


Compared to the 'protest' riots and unrest of the black communities in the 1960s, the riots of 1919 were more like mobs of whites going around on lynching and killing sprees, and blacks sometimes responding likewise. All on a massive scale.


Still, it's no excuse to duck a worthy challenger.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:25 AM   #15
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Default Re: Full Timeline of Dempsey-Wills - Evidence of Dempsey-Wills Contract Photo Staged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
Rickard seems to have pressured him to take the Tunney fight instead of fighting Wills.

This is true. Rickard certainly did send word to Dempsey not to fight Wills.
Rickard believed - or said he believed - that the promoters offering a Wills fight were full of B.S. anyway. He was convinced someone would pull the plug on it. Or so he told Dempsey.
Alternatively, maybe he just didn't want a black champion because he'd been stung financially when Jack Johnson was forced out of the country.
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