How highly do you rate Sonny Liston as a puncher?

[LittleRed]

Originally Posted by McGrain

No.

He could utterly destroy durable fighters with a single punch.

Don't you mean he did destroy durable fighters with a single punch.

[Legend X]

I don't really go in for this 'rating punchers' like saying he's top 10, top 5 or whatever.

Obviously Sonny Liston packed a serious punch. You have to admire the way he used his left (jab and hook). A very good boxer with some very serious power.

[Absolutely!]

Originally Posted by Legend X

I don't really go in for this 'rating punchers' like saying he's top 10, top 5 or whatever.

Obviously Sonny Liston packed a serious punch. You have to admire the way he used his left (jab and hook). A very good boxer with some very serious power.

True. It's sort of silly, not to mention impossible, to attempt to grade out punchers from different eras with any sort of authority.

Liston was obviously very heavy handed, meaning he had large and dense bones and the musculature to keep those bones stable when he threw. He lacked explosivity, but was able to drive through the target when he landed with little loss of momentum. I imagine it as the difference between being hit by a baseball bat and a girder; the bat has tons of power by dint of its speed by transfers most of that power into the target upon landing; the girder on the other hand might not move very fast, but it doesn't stop moving once it hits. Pretty extreme example I know, but I hope it illustrates what I mean.

Off topic, but it's funny watching his old fights where every single one of his landed punches seems to make an exaggerated "thwok!" sound when it lands.

[Senor Pepe']

Hard to evaluate Sonny Liston's power on the overall,,,,,,

As Sonny was not a 'big knockout guy' early in his career.

Then during his rise through the Heavyweight Division he was more of a 'clubber'
than a 'one punch' knockout artist.

Truly a 'hard puncher', but his punches came in like a 'slow boat from China'.

[SuzieQ49]

Then during his rise through the Heavyweight Division he was more of a 'clubber'
than a 'one punch' knockout artist.

He had a lot of early knockouts over top rated prime contenders

[luke]

the problem with sonny is.. he was supposedly left handed and did a marvin hagler a fought the oposite to what hand he was (leading with his best hand) sure it makes his lead hook better but he doesnt have much if his lead hook doesnt get them out of there, if he boxed out of a southpaw stance he would of been top 5 in the HW division. he is still top 10 imo.

[TheGreatA]

A list of top heavyweight punchers without Sonny Liston's name on it just doesn't sound right.

I think he had a rather complete arsenal of punches although his left hook was definitely the stand-out, a punch capable of icing an opponent in a single shot.

He also had the puncher's instincts, sometimes knowing where to place the punches before the opponent had even moved into the position. For example he completely figured out Patterson's movement patterns and placed his uppercuts with pin-point accuracy after faking Floyd out with the jab.

While he was no Joe Louis when it came to compact punching and accuracy, I do think he is a step above to Foreman and Shavers types, with no disrespect intended to their raw power and strength. Liston just had a lot more going for him than punching power alone.

A highlight of punchers I made a few years back:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tgv5rzKMn4[/ame]

3:35

[he grant]

Liston was a crushing puncher with either hand ... right up there with the very best in history ..

[FlyingFrenchman]

Behind Foreman Tyson Shavers Louis Lewis Frazier Bowe Tua Morrison and maybe a few others

[Matty lll]

Originally Posted by Vic-JofreBRASIL

I would confidently say Foreman, Louis, Tyson, Baer and Lewis were harder hitters.....and imo Dempsey and Marciano were also better punchers.....

I would agree with that vic

Certainly the first three and Marciano, maybe Dempsey to but thats not as clear cut in my eyes.

[Matty lll]

Originally Posted by FlyingFrenchman

Behind Foreman Tyson Shavers Louis Lewis Frazier Bowe Tua Morrison and maybe a few others

I wouldn't say so mate, Shavers is a good shout though. I always forget about him when it comes to these lists.

[janitor]

Originally Posted by Absolutely!

Please define what you mean by "raw power".

There are clearly two coimponents to this argument.

How much actual power these punchers generated, and how effective they were at knocking out opponents.

Now I would suggest that Baer rates much higher on the first measure than the second.

[FrochFan]

1. Foreman
2. Louis
3. Baer
4. Shavers
5. Lennox
6. Liston
7. Marciano
8. Dempsey
9. Wlad
10. Tyson

Haye may creep on the list if he continues to get KOs against 240 lbers.

[Legend X]

Originally Posted by FrochFan

1. Foreman
2. Louis
3. Baer
4. Shavers
5. Lennox
6. Liston
7. Marciano
8. Dempsey
9. Wlad
10. Tyson

Haye may creep on the list if he continues to get KOs against 240 lbers.

Line 'em up then.

[RockysSplitNose]

Originally Posted by ETM

There was a fighter ScrapIron Johnson who had the misfortune to fight Sonny Liston in the mid `60s and a young George Foreman in the late 60s as well as a young Joe Frazier. All great punchers.

According to an article from the Ring Mag years ago ScrapIron said that Sonny Listion hit him harder than anyone.

So If he is hitting harder than Foreman and Frazier then Liston has to be at or near the very top.

I have a documentary about Sonny aswell were Chuck Wepner is interviewed and he went in with both Liston and Foreman and he said unequivocally and with quite a shudder (after mentioning Foreman) that "NOBODY hit me like that guy hit me!!"

That's enough for me I'd certainly put Liston over Foreman in terms of power - so definately near the top of the top