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Old 07-23-2012, 11:54 AM   #1
SuzieQ49
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Default How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?

A Prime Muhammad Ali..enough said

Prime versions Zora Folley and Eddie Machen were better fundamentally and skillwise than pretty much anyone Dempsey beat with the exception of Jack Sharkey(who was hit in the nuts)

Prime Floyd Patterson is leagues above anyone Dempsey beat. Dempsey never faced anyone with combination punching, handspeed, finishing ability, boxing skills of a Floyd Patterson


Prime Cleveland Williams is an interesting matchup. He is clearly more talented and much faster than any big oaf Dempsey fought.


Nino Valdes, Johnny Summerlin, Roy Harris, Mike Dejohn, Wayne Bethea would all likely get battered, but some of these men like DeJohn and Valdes had size combined with serious power and a ramrod left jab.

Last edited by SuzieQ49; 07-23-2012 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 07-23-2012, 12:34 PM   #2
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Default Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?

With his leaky defense and lack of a cool head in the ring, I see Dempsey getting sparked by a couple of these guys, especially the more skilled with some pop. Then again, some of these fellers are of darker complexion and ol' Jack shied from those guys after his meeting with John Lester Johnson.
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Old 07-23-2012, 12:39 PM   #3
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Default Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
With his leaky defense and lack of a cool head in the ring, I see Dempsey getting sparked by a couple of these guys, especially the more skilled with some pop. Then again, some of these fellers are of darker complexion and ol' Jack shied from those guys after his meeting with John Lester Johnson.
Name me one good black fighter from that era that Dempsey didn't almost fight Seamus, just one.
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Old 07-23-2012, 12:40 PM   #4
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Default Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?

Prime Dempsey would have a tough fight with Patterson, but the advantage in power would be a big advantage to Dempsey......
The rest of these guys are a tad overrated IMO, guys like Cleveland Williams or Zora Folley, they were decent but nothing special....Fred Fulton level of fighters, actually Cleveland Williams doesnīt have a better resume than Fred Fulton...just to start a single comparison in this thread.
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Old 07-23-2012, 12:59 PM   #5
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Default Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?

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Name me one good black fighter from that era that Dempsey didn't almost fight Seamus, just one.
Oh, nothing speaks greater for a fighter's legacy than those he ALMOST fought...

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Old 07-23-2012, 01:04 PM   #6
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Default Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?

A young Cassius Clay would have outboxed Jack. I'd fancy Dempsey's chances against all of Sonny's other opponents.
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Old 07-23-2012, 01:11 PM   #7
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Default Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?

r
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic-JofreBRASIL View Post
Prime Dempsey would have a tough fight with Patterson, but the advantage in power would be a big advantage to Dempsey......
The rest of these guys are a tad overrated IMO, guys like Cleveland Williams or Zora Folley, they were decent but nothing special....Fred Fulton level of fighters, actually Cleveland Williams doesnīt have a better resume than Fred Fulton...just to start a single comparison in this thread.
Folley, Machen would box Fultons ears off....win every round

Williams would knock beanpole fulton out early

I think these men were special fighters, who didn't get to showcase it in a championship setting because Damato wanted no part of these guys
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Old 07-23-2012, 01:16 PM   #8
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Default Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?

Take Dempsey at his best and he would beat them all, knock most of them out. Even the 1964 Clay shouldn't be favoured over the absolute best version of Dempsey.
But facing them all as a career, he'd probably lose to two or three of them.

I don't see Patterson giving Dempsey much of a fight. Patterson could well be on the floor every few seconds.
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Old 07-23-2012, 01:19 PM   #9
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Default Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
r

Folley, Machen would box Fultons ears off....win every round

Williams would knock beanpole fulton out early
Have you ever seen Fred Fulton boxing on film ?
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Old 07-23-2012, 01:35 PM   #10
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Default Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?

I think that he would have beaten everybody Liston beat prety convincingly.

The only one who would have posed a serious threat to him is Eddie Machen, and even there I would favour Dempsey.
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Old 07-23-2012, 01:41 PM   #11
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Default Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?

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The only one who would have posed a serious threat to him is Eddie Machen, and even there I would favour Dempsey.
I think Machen would probably be KO'd early.
Machen's best possible scenario would be to try to spoil his way through the fight to see the final bell but I don't think he could deal with the speed and pace of Dempsey.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:36 PM   #12
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Default Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?

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Have you ever seen Fred Fulton boxing on film ?
No, so we must assume he was fantastic because the negation of evidence proves what ever one wishes it to prove.

Given his record and contemporary accounts, I believe Fulton was pretty damn good by any standard and one Dempsey's greatest victories. He was perhaps a little fragile but could handle most in good fashion. I think he would measure up well with the challengers from the 50's, but most of Dempsey's opponents would not.

That said, Dempsey did take this guy out in one which is a very impressive result.
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:56 PM   #13
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Default Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
r

Folley, Machen would box Fultons ears off....win every round

Williams would knock beanpole fulton out early

I think these men were special fighters, who didn't get to showcase it in a championship setting because Damato wanted no part of these guys
Fultonīs resume doesnīt suggest that......also, what gives Dempseyīs wins more value is that he was always with a size disavantage....this is something often forgot......Liston was the opposite, always much bigger and with a good advantage in his favor.

Anyway.....the only thing Fulton didnīt have probably was a great chin but we know Williams also wasnīt too durable......itīs a pretty good comparison for starters..
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:56 PM   #14
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Default Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?

Quote:
Take Dempsey at his best and he would beat them all, knock most of them out. Even the 1964 Clay shouldn't be favoured over the absolute best version of Dempsey.
Muhammad Ali of 1964 would have embarrassed any version of Dempsey
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Old 07-23-2012, 03:43 PM   #15
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Default Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?

The threats to him are Patterson, Cleveland Williams, Machen and Folley he beats the rest.

All better than anyone Dempsey beat, all stylistically tricky fights for Dempsey, not that he'd lose them all but I don't see him fighting that schedule without picking up a defeat, maybe he could though. There's a decent chance he KO's Williams and Patterson but in turn both could KO him and would probably be the best punchers he faced. Machen and Folley have their chance to implement the gameplan Miske and Tunney used to frustrate Dempsey
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