1951 Joe Louis vs 1919 Jess Willard and 1923 Luis Firpo 12 rounds

[Ramon Rojo]

Originally Posted by janitor

Could you?

Could you what?

[burt bienstock]

Originally Posted by kenmore

Are you saying that Louis lost his power? I'm not so sure that the power had faded in 1951. I think it was more a case of reduced delivery speed and timing, resulting in fewer deadly rights reaching their target.

Willard and Firpo, however, would have been wide open to almost anything that the aging Louis threw at them.

Power means nothing if there is no "speed" behind it...My favorite heavyweight Louis had no right hand in the Marciano fight in 1951...Like a power pitcher losing his fastball... Like Joe Louis aptly said," I would see the target, but pull the trigger too late "...
What made a Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis both great punchers, both below
200 pounds, was the unique power and torque speed in their explosive punches...And both were VERY strong for their weight...A deadly combination...

[SuzieQ49]

Joe Louis >>>>>>>>>>> Jack Dempsey

[SuzieQ49]

My favorite heavyweight Louis had no right hand in the Marciano fight

He certainly had it in his proceeding bouts when he hammered away at Cesar Brion and Lee Savold with his right hand. Let me guess he suddenly lost it completely for Marciano?

[burt bienstock]

Originally Posted by SuzieQ49

He certainly had it in his proceeding bouts when he hammered away at Cesar Brion and Lee Savold with his right hand. Let me guess he suddenly lost it completely for Marciano?

Louis was a SHOT version of his trip hammer self when he was in his prime...A Caesar Brion, An Omelio Agramonte, a LH Jimmy Bivins doesn't go the distance with a young Joe Louis...By the time Louis fought Rocky Marciano ,Joe was a shell of himself, though capable of doing damage...I love Rocky Marciano, saw him ringside, saw him train a few feet away, but I believe the Joe Louis of Max Baer vintage and til 1941, kos the much slower punching Marciano at his best...No one survives the murderous
combinations of vintage Louis who could not move pronto...

[janitor]

Originally Posted by Ramon Rojo

Could you what?

Beat these fighters that you call shite?

[Ramon Rojo]

Originally Posted by janitor

Beat these fighters that you call shite?

No, i can't beat them.

I also can't beat 99.99999% of all the professional dart players.

I'm shite at darts. And hundreds of other sports when playing against professionals.

[janitor]

Originally Posted by Ramon Rojo

No, i can't beat them.

I also can't beat 99.99999% of all the professional dart players.

I'm shite at darts. And hundreds of other sports when playing against professionals.

Then you are an absolute humbug insulting these men who have achieved more that you could ever dream of.

It would be an honour if they permited you to clean their spit bucket.

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by burt bienstock

LR,a stroke of genius ! On one hand Harry Wills instilled fear into Dempsey, posters say...On the other hand Wills couldn't stop the "crude"
Firpo in 12 rounds, but a washed up 37 year old Joe Louis, sans a right hand,would stop a bullish Firpo, says very LITTLE about Harry Wills...Bravo!

Crude Firpo nearly ko'd Dempsey but couldn't hurt past prime Wills, what does that say about Jack Dempsey

[janitor]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Crude Firpo nearly ko'd Dempsey but couldn't hurt past prime Wills, what does that say about Jack Dempsey

The contemporary press liked Dempsey's way of beating Firpo better.

Perhaps the shouldn't have, but it was held up by some as a demonstration of the superiority of Dempsey over Wills.

[SuzieQ49]

The contemporary press liked Dempsey's way of beating Firpo better.

So Dempsey getting knocked out of the ring and saved by a type writer was more impressive than Wills clear cut victory?

[Ramon Rojo]

Originally Posted by janitor

It would be an honour if they permited you to clean their spit bucket.

I don't think so.

[burt bienstock]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Crude Firpo nearly ko'd Dempsey but couldn't hurt past prime Wills, what does that say about Jack Dempsey

It shows either your ignorance or your bias, and as you are a smart fella
your answer shows your "BIAS"...Yes Dempsey was hurt by a Firpo right hand, yes Dempsey went flying out of the ring, but look at what he did at the end of the fight...When hurt the tigerish Dempsey annihilated firpo with a quick one-two in the 2nd round...Finito...
Louis was dropped by a Galento, a jimmy Braddock, knocked out of the ring by Buddy Baer, Ali was BADLY hurt by a left-hook that dropped him at the end of the round...Badly hurt...Robinson was truly out for over 10 seconds by a fair fighter Artie Levine, dropped by tommy Bell...But what counts is they ALL won their bouts, and all rose to the occasion PP...And YOU know that...The manner that Dempsey flattened Luis Angel Firpo, cannot be compared to Harry Wills winning a 12 round decision over Luis Firpo, so what does that say about YOU...??? There is no fighter in history so reviled
by some [not all] posters on ESB that it borders on the theatre of the absurd... You can have your opinions on the ability of the Manassa Mauler, but you cannot create your own facts...Dempsey demolished Firpo as
thoroughly as any one of YOUR idols did...That's a FACT...Cheerio...

[janitor]

Originally Posted by SuzieQ49

So Dempsey getting knocked out of the ring and saved by a type writer was more impressive than Wills clear cut victory?

That is how many people saw it at the time.

Dempsey put Firpo away more quickly in an all action fight, while Wills fought a safety first fight for which he was haevily criticised.

The atitude of some was "Wills won, but lets face it, neither guy isin Dempseys class" .

[SuzieQ49]

Harry Wills beat better competition than Jack Dempsey. Dempsey never defeated a fighter as good as a 1914 version of Sam Langford. Jack Dempsey ducked Sam Langford in 1917, and ran out of the ring from Joe Jeanette in 1918.