'Why I Took A Dive' by Sonny Liston - Page 2

Senor Pepe' · 07-23-2012, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orriray59

If they were fixed for Liston to lose then why did he go for the kill and really try to take out Ali when Ali was complaining about his eyes?

You don't think Sonny Liston could 'pull his punches'.

Plus, the young Cassius Clay could take a punch, was durable and
very adapt at slipping punches, especially 'slow ones'.

Question. 'If Sonny Liston defeats Cassius Clay by a one-sided knockout,
just what does he do next for a big money fight.

Don't forget the 1964 Marginal Rate Income Tax Laws, which would
take 77% of his fight purse.

The answer. The 37 year-old Heavyweight Champion goes,,,,,nowhere.

TheGreatA · 07-23-2012, 06:49 PM

Anybody who thinks the 3rd round of this contest wasn't a seriously fought round has to re-evaluate whether he truly knows anything about boxing. Liston nailed Ali with a massive left hook which felled Cleveland Williams among others and followed up with uppercuts that left lesser men on the canvas.

Ali was also legitimately trying to stop him by pouring combination upon combination on Liston whose face was turning into a mess.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkC298csUvA[/ame]

2:55

Senor Pepe' · 07-23-2012, 07:20 PM

Nah,

Just a 37 year-old man, who hadn't really trained that much. Boozed out, and
accustomed to the good life at the Thunderbird Hotel in Las Vegas for the past
5-months.

Suffering from bursitis in his left shoulder, and slowing down from the wear and tear.
His balance was starting to go, and he fought 'spraddle-legged'.

And to take into consideration, the guy fought only a total of '6' minutes in the ring, in
'29' months.

The 'smart money' says, "Sonny Took A Dive".

orriray59 · 07-23-2012, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senor Pepe'

Nah,

Just a 37 year-old man, who hadn't really trained that much. Boozed out, and
accustomed to the good life at the Thunderbird Hotel in Las Vegas for the past
5-months.

Suffering from bursitis in his left shoulder, and slowing down from the wear and tear.
His balance was starting to go, and he fought 'spraddle-legged'.

And to take into consideration, the guy fought only a total of '6' minutes in the ring, in
'29' months.

The 'smart money' says, "Sonny Took A Dive".

There is clear physical evidence that contradicts what you're saying.

orriray59 · 07-23-2012, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatA

Anybody who thinks the 3rd round of this contest wasn't a seriously fought round has to re-evaluate whether he truly knows anything about boxing. Liston nailed Ali with a massive left hook which felled Cleveland Williams among others and followed up with uppercuts that left lesser men on the canvas.

Ali was also legitimately trying to stop him by pouring combination upon combination on Liston whose face was turning into a mess.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

2:55

Exactly.

johnmaff36 · 07-23-2012, 08:10 PM

Your agenda is starting to make you look foolish.

Coulda,woulda,shoulda.......all theories and myths.

Now if you had any kind of credible evidence.......no, wait a minute....there ISNT any.

As for Clay dancing when he realised Liston wasnt coming out, is that supposed to 'give' the game away? In that case Wilfredo Benitez 'gave' the game away when he knew he bingo'ed Maurice Hope by turning and smiling before Hope hit the canvas. Was that fixed too SP

Senor Pepe' · 07-23-2012, 08:18 PM

The bout was 'fixed' in the way that Sonny Liston was not going to 'try' to win.

Not that he couldn't win.

a) Linimiment in the eye's
b) Torn shoulder muscle throwing a punch
c) Pre-fight behavior
d) Sonny Liston's background
e) Re-match contracts pre-signed

Of course, what other modern day fight has all these 'factors'

PowerPuncher · 07-23-2012, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatA

I would've hoped for actual statements by Sonny Liston instead of fictional ones.

The only statements by Liston regarding the fight were him criticizing Jersey Joe Walcott for not driving Ali to a neutral corner and allowing Nat Fleischer to influence his count. He seemed legitimately bitter about the loss and felt cheated.

As he should, Liston was entitled to continue under the rules

TheGreatA · 07-23-2012, 08:23 PM

Sonny cleared his throat, sat up and began talking like a man who is discussing a painful subject for the absolute last time. "Clay caught me cold and the count was messed up, and that's all they was to it," he said. "Clay knocked me down with a good punch. Anybody can get caught cold in the first round, before you even work up a sweat. And when I was down, Clay stood right over me. No, I never blacked out, not for a second. But I wasn't gonna get up, either, not with him standin' over me. See, you can't get up without puttin' one hand on the floor, and so I couldn't protect myself, and he can hit me on the way up.

"So there was Walcott [Referee Jersey Joe Walcott] and Clay wrasslin' over me and Walcott finally got him to a corner or somethin', and then I got up and Clay come back and we started back to fightin' again.

"And Nat Fletcher [ Nat Fleischer, editor of The Ring Magazine] began wavin' his arms at ringside and Walcott stopped the fight. Nowadays Nat Fletcher says he was just callin' Walcott over to tell him that the timekeeper wanted to see him or somethin', but other people says it was Nat Fletcher stopped the fight.

"I was never counted out. I coulda got up even right after I was hit. And I still felt pretty good when I did get up. I mean I could still go on. What Walcott shoulda done, he shoulda sent Cassius to a neutral corner. When the referees call you out in the center of the ring before a fight, they tells you that: go to a neutral corner. And that's when they count you out, not with no fighter standin' right over you.

"They shouldn't have fighters refereein' no fights no way," Sonny added, now back in his horizontal position. "They should have people that don't get excited."

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Senor Pepe' · 07-23-2012, 08:31 PM

The Great A

And 'if' Sonny did take a dive, I'm sure he would have revealed 'all the details' about it from the
home that Kirk Kerkorian gave him in Las Vegas at the Stardust Country Club, 9-Months after the
bout in Lewiston, Maine.

Do your homework.

johnmaff36 · 07-23-2012, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senor Pepe'

The Great A

And 'if' Sonny did take a dive, I'm sure he would have revealed 'all the details' from the
home that Kirk Kerkorian gave him in Las Vegas, 6-Months after the bout in Lewiston, Maine.

Do your homework.

To quote Sgt Joe Friday 'Just the facts sir'

Ali_ · 07-23-2012, 08:40 PM

Senor Pepe is the saddest poster on ESB.

Its amazing.

Senor Pepe' · 07-23-2012, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ali_

Senor Pepe is the saddest poster on ESB.

Its amazing.

Ali,,,,,,You troll, and never post anything, because you have nothing to say.

Look at the name you took. Ali.

You have no imagination.

Look at all my threads, and all my viewers.

You my friend, have no one.

Please, start a thread, and lets see where it goes.

Saintpat · 07-23-2012, 11:13 PM

Pepe' has convined me that Ali's true record, without all the fixes, is 3-1-1: he split with Leon Spinks on the up-and-up, and also got the deserving nod in the third Norton fight.

The rest were all predetermined, except, of course, for the draw with Inoki -- that was completely legit.

albinored · 07-24-2012, 01:56 AM

......first fight...if you look at the film/tape you will see that ali started dancing and waving his arms because he saw that liston was not going to come out of his corner. it was a quick reaction but a legit one.

second fight.....there is nothing more to add to the hundreds of comments that have been made about this one liston tanked it...walcott screwed up and fleischer butted in even though he had no official connection to anything.

07-23-2012, 06:49 PM	#17
TheGreatA Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 7,116 vCash: 1000	Re: 'Why I Took A Dive' by Sonny Liston Anybody who thinks the 3rd round of this contest wasn't a seriously fought round has to re-evaluate whether he truly knows anything about boxing. Liston nailed Ali with a massive left hook which felled Cleveland Williams among others and followed up with uppercuts that left lesser men on the canvas. Ali was also legitimately trying to stop him by pouring combination upon combination on Liston whose face was turning into a mess. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkC298csUvA[/ame] 2:55
Top

07-23-2012, 07:20 PM	#18
Senor Pepe' Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 4,734 vCash: 500	Re: 'Why I Took A Dive' by Sonny Liston Nah, Just a 37 year-old man, who hadn't really trained that much. Boozed out, and accustomed to the good life at the Thunderbird Hotel in Las Vegas for the past 5-months. Suffering from bursitis in his left shoulder, and slowing down from the wear and tear. His balance was starting to go, and he fought 'spraddle-legged'. And to take into consideration, the guy fought only a total of '6' minutes in the ring, in '29' months. The 'smart money' says, "Sonny Took A Dive".
Top

07-23-2012, 08:10 PM	#21
johnmaff36 Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ireland Posts: 6,848 vCash: 1000	Re: 'Why I Took A Dive' by Sonny Liston Your agenda is starting to make you look foolish. Coulda,woulda,shoulda.......all theories and myths. Now if you had any kind of credible evidence.......no, wait a minute....there ISNT any. As for Clay dancing when he realised Liston wasnt coming out, is that supposed to 'give' the game away? In that case Wilfredo Benitez 'gave' the game away when he knew he bingo'ed Maurice Hope by turning and smiling before Hope hit the canvas. Was that fixed too SP
Top

07-23-2012, 08:18 PM	#22
Senor Pepe' Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 4,734 vCash: 500	Re: 'Why I Took A Dive' by Sonny Liston The bout was 'fixed' in the way that Sonny Liston was not going to 'try' to win. Not that he couldn't win. a) Linimiment in the eye's b) Torn shoulder muscle throwing a punch c) Pre-fight behavior d) Sonny Liston's background e) Re-match contracts pre-signed Of course, what other modern day fight has all these 'factors'
Top

07-23-2012, 08:23 PM	#24
TheGreatA Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 7,116 vCash: 1000	Re: 'Why I Took A Dive' by Sonny Liston Sonny cleared his throat, sat up and began talking like a man who is discussing a painful subject for the absolute last time. "Clay caught me cold and the count was messed up, and that's all they was to it," he said. "Clay knocked me down with a good punch. Anybody can get caught cold in the first round, before you even work up a sweat. And when I was down, Clay stood right over me. No, I never blacked out, not for a second. But I wasn't gonna get up, either, not with him standin' over me. See, you can't get up without puttin' one hand on the floor, and so I couldn't protect myself, and he can hit me on the way up. "So there was Walcott [Referee Jersey Joe Walcott] and Clay wrasslin' over me and Walcott finally got him to a corner or somethin', and then I got up and Clay come back and we started back to fightin' again. "And Nat Fletcher [ Nat Fleischer, editor of The Ring Magazine] began wavin' his arms at ringside and Walcott stopped the fight. Nowadays Nat Fletcher says he was just callin' Walcott over to tell him that the timekeeper wanted to see him or somethin', but other people says it was Nat Fletcher stopped the fight. "I was never counted out. I coulda got up even right after I was hit. And I still felt pretty good when I did get up. I mean I could still go on. What Walcott shoulda done, he shoulda sent Cassius to a neutral corner. When the referees call you out in the center of the ring before a fight, they tells you that: go to a neutral corner. And that's when they count you out, not with no fighter standin' right over you. "They shouldn't have fighters refereein' no fights no way," Sonny added, now back in his horizontal position. "They should have people that don't get excited." [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Top

07-23-2012, 08:31 PM	#25
Senor Pepe' Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 4,734 vCash: 500	Re: 'Why I Took A Dive' by Sonny Liston The Great A And 'if' Sonny did take a dive, I'm sure he would have revealed 'all the details' about it from the home that Kirk Kerkorian gave him in Las Vegas at the Stardust Country Club, 9-Months after the bout in Lewiston, Maine. Do your homework.
Top

07-23-2012, 08:40 PM	#27
Ali_ Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,758 vCash: 500	Re: 'Why I Took A Dive' by Sonny Liston Senor Pepe is the saddest poster on ESB. Its amazing.
Top

07-23-2012, 11:13 PM	#29
Saintpat Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,197 vCash: 1000	Re: 'Why I Took A Dive' by Sonny Liston Pepe' has convined me that Ali's true record, without all the fixes, is 3-1-1: he split with Leon Spinks on the up-and-up, and also got the deserving nod in the third Norton fight. The rest were all predetermined, except, of course, for the draw with Inoki -- that was completely legit.
Top

07-24-2012, 01:56 AM	#30
albinored Gatekeeper ESB Full Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: World Citizen Posts: 389 vCash: 1000	Re: 'Why I Took A Dive' by Sonny Liston ......first fight...if you look at the film/tape you will see that ali started dancing and waving his arms because he saw that liston was not going to come out of his corner. it was a quick reaction but a legit one. second fight.....there is nothing more to add to the hundreds of comments that have been made about this one liston tanked it...walcott screwed up and fleischer butted in even though he had no official connection to anything.
Top