Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-03-2008, 06:33 PM   #61
Stonehands89
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,270
vCash: 1000
Default Re: 1980 Roberto Duran vs. Thomas Hearns @welter

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpw417
Yep. That's the question all right can he get inside(?) It's the getting caught at times, that would be a concern for Duran...Hearns was a cannon at welter...Duran coming into him gives him so many more opportunites to land that right cross than Leonard strategically gave him.
Addendum: Looks like I goofed on the qoute thing...oops. Please read inside the qoute box for my response. Sorry.
Well, that was a lot of work -trying to sort my quotes from yours! No problem.

To sum up, I think that we agree more than disagree.

However, I would say that I don't believe that Leonard hurt Duran or that Leonard believed that he hurt Duran. He stunned him him a couple of times, but Duran faltered not at all. Leonard got hurt twice in that fight. I don't believe for a moment that Leonard wanted the rematch so quickly because he thought he could hurt Duran. Leonard would have fought in a manner to match those black trunks he wore in New Orleans. He wasn't engaging the smaller man much. He demanded a fight because he wanted to exploit Duran's weakness for steaks and cake. Leonard admits this freely... and it does detract from the win in my book. I just can't picture a Tony Zale thinking like that. Gene Tunney either.

The other point is to clarify that by stating that Duran would have to come inside differently against Hearns, I meant that he would have to refrain from rushing straight in like he did at times against Leonard. If that onrushing head meets the incoming Hearns' right, that's a problem.
Stonehands89 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 03-03-2008, 07:39 PM   #62
Stonehands89
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,270
vCash: 1000
Default Re: 1980 Roberto Duran vs. Thomas Hearns @welter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Spoon
Solid points, but every ying has a yang.

Ted Spoon is not trying to convert anybody on this issue, but rather testing how far the points can be stretched.

Duran was indeed four years removed from the brilliance we saw in Montreal, but a fighter is not completely reliant on his seconds like a car is on Petrol. Inside the ring against Hearn's there was a semblance of the man known as 'Hands of Stone' and he was stomped on.

It is completely plausible that the contrasting versions of the combatants would produce a different scenario, but outcome?

Leonard forcing his way into the lanky Hearn's has much to do with the formers reach. When Leonard really made a mark in the 6th it was compliments of a quick looping shot, round thirteen was a long cross, and the finishing touches in the 14th started off a wide, looping shot again.

The dangers that Leonard faced would be amplified against Duran because he is shorter in reach and height. Leonard is better equipped to 'force' a battle on Hearn's than a short-punching Duran. Trying to feint 'the hitman' into traps would prove difficult - it is Duran who has to commit to something as Hearn's commands the outside.

Technical proficiency can be countered against physical superiority. Duran can be 'airtight' in there, but Hearn's would not need much of a chance to shoot lighting down from above.

Thomas Hearn's was a bit of a beanpole at Welterweight, but he was a strong fighter and very hard to bully because he was so explosive. It's hard to see the smaller Duran stepping up successfully against such a package of speed, reach and power.
Boxing is the theatre of the unexpected. Just last week Paul Williams, damn near 6'2 was hit at will by Carlos Quintana who was stopped in 5 by Cotto. Quintana is 5'9, but fought that airtight fight we'd both be looking for in the hyothetical Duran-Hearns '80. Quintana hit him almost at will.

If any of Duran's 100+ opponents had his number I think the short list would look like this:

1. Hearns
(a distant) 2. Hagler
3. Benitez/Leonard.

I've always conceded that Hearns spells hell for little Duran. But that diminutive creature who stepped into the ring in June of 80 was also demonic and I'd argue that he was among the top 3 most formidable fighters who ever lived on that night.... very hard to beat for any WW, ever: I think Robinson would beat him, Burley, and perhaps Gavilan. Not alot else.

I also think that you and I part ways on the importance of the trainers. I think that there are legions of examples of fighters that were more dependent on who was managing their camp and who was waiting for them every 3 minutes in a bout. The great and the good... Louis needed Blackburn. Freddie Steele needed Dave Miller and with him beat Ceferino Garcia, Vince Dundee, Lesnevich, Jones... after Miller died, he was damn near finished at about 27 years old. I don't think that Holyfield would have beaten Bowe without Steward telling him how to do it. Futch was critical to legions of fighters. And I am utterly convinced that Duran would have been the second coming of Mando Ramos without Arcel and Brown to give him class and a skill set that was practically second to none.

You are correct when you are assert that physical superiority can overcome technical prowess. However, it is just as true that technical prowess can overcome physical superiority. I'd argue that the former happens less than the latter in boxing.

Technically speaking, Duran was better than Leonard. Physically speaking, Leonard was better than Duran. I don't see this fight as Duran trying to do what Leonard did. Leonard was looping shots upwards and it worked out for him. Duran was looping shots on Barkley and it worked out for him. It wasn't a matter of reach and speed as much as it was about positioning. Leonard wasn't effective until he got closer. He was wary early on about fighting Hearns inside because getting there was dangerous. I see Montreal Duran getting inside easier than Leonard did and tearing up the ribs and looping shots. Duran was better defensively than Leonard --particularly inside the perimeter.

I agree that it would be tough for Duran -even at his best- but I beleive that 80 Duran was about as better than 84 Duran as 80 Hearns was less than 84 Hearns. Hearns did look like a beanpole at WW, and Duran looked liked an billhook who could cut it down from underneath.

The short answer is that Duran could find Hearns insurmountable, even in Montreal. Absolutely. But I think not.
Stonehands89 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 07:44 PM   #63
Stonehands89
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,270
vCash: 1000
Default Re: 1980 Roberto Duran vs. Thomas Hearns @welter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin
Ted Spoon has long since earned the right to refer to himself in the third person. Stonehands asserts this after several satisfying debates and discussions with this exemplary poster.
Stonehands89 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013