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Old 07-26-2012, 04:44 AM   #16
Bokaj
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Default Re: What do you think about Muhammad Ali's boxing fundamentals?

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You think Holmes would have displayed better in-fighting at a late stage of his career against Frazier in Manilla like Ali had? Ali's in-fighting ability gets often overlooked because he held exponentially more as he became more and more of a shot fighter and also happened to run up against the greatest HW in-fighter ever.
It's funny how the in-fighting Ali showed in Manilla is overlooked.

That a tall, rangy fighter prefers to hold instead of fighting on the inside isn't the same as that he can't fight inside.

Manilla is actually a very good example of that Ali had some very good fundamentals to fall back on once his speed had declined. The fight against Berbick is another. And Ali wasn't only old and slow in that fight, but also physically ill with Parkinson's syndrome.
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Old 07-26-2012, 05:22 AM   #17
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Default Re: What do you think about Muhammad Ali's boxing fundamentals?

I'll have to check out the Manila fight again.
I'm thinking Ali stood there soaking up a savage body beating on the inside, and toughed it out with pure rugged courage - rather than showed any skills of in-fighting.
But maybe I'm wrong.
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Old 07-26-2012, 06:19 AM   #18
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Default Re: What do you think about Muhammad Ali's boxing fundamentals?

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I'll have to check out the Manila fight again.
I'm thinking Ali stood there soaking up a savage body beating on the inside, and toughed it out with pure rugged courage - rather than showed any skills of in-fighting.
But maybe I'm wrong.
He was blocking and parrying alot of the shots and countering(in a conservative manner) with uppercuts and straights. He was doing the cleaner work in there. But ofcourse wherever Foreman lands its doing damage
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Old 07-26-2012, 06:27 AM   #19
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Default Re: What do you think about Muhammad Ali's boxing fundamentals?

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He was blocking and parrying alot of the shots and countering(in a conservative manner) with uppercuts and straights. He was doing the cleaner work in there. But ofcourse wherever Foreman lands its doing damage
You mean Frazier ?
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Old 07-26-2012, 06:44 AM   #20
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Default Re: What do you think about Muhammad Ali's boxing fundamentals?

Great thread, Keep it coming.
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Old 07-26-2012, 07:09 AM   #21
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Default Re: What do you think about Muhammad Ali's boxing fundamentals?

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Ali was pretty basic and wasn't very varied in his arsenal. Larry Holmes was a better all round fighter.
you would think that, but larrys jab causes him more problems than it solves againt some people ie norton/tyson i know he was passed it for tyson, but when he loads up on the jab it means he is moving towards you if he misses with the jab he is right in front of you with a half guard, loved larry holmes but there are certain things most boxers with a small amount probly 0.0001% all have flaws.
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Old 07-26-2012, 07:25 AM   #22
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Default Re: What do you think about Muhammad Ali's boxing fundamentals?

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What do you think of Ali as a technician? Was Muhammad Ali really a skilled boxer with bad habits or was he really technically flawed who got away with it because of his athletic talent?


Muhammad was pretty unorthodox as far as TEXTBOOK boxing went. The old timers claimed that he that he did a lot of things wrong. His natural gifts which were speed and timing made him a great fighter. Also he had a cast iron jaw could adapt to different challenges in a fight.

Jose Torres put it perfectly when he mentioned that Ali was n't as good,technically,as many champions in heavyweight history,but he could n't see any of them actually beating Muhammad.
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:03 PM   #23
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Default Re: What do you think about Muhammad Ali's boxing fundamentals?

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I'll have to check out the Manila fight again.
I'm thinking Ali stood there soaking up a savage body beating on the inside, and toughed it out with pure rugged courage - rather than showed any skills of in-fighting.
But maybe I'm wrong.
He has a good guard and stance, and is disciplined and sharp with his counters. Also, I like his movement in the early rounds. Much more textbook and economical than his trademark "dancing".
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Old 07-27-2012, 06:25 AM   #24
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Default Re: What do you think about Muhammad Ali's boxing fundamentals?

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Ali depended on foot speed, hand speed and natural agility.

He wasn't a tecnician.
Agree for the most part. Ali was unorthodox, but he was so quick and fast he got away with it more often than not, except when he fought skilled jabbers in Jones, Norton, Young, and Lyle...then he looked very beatable.


Later in his career, Ali became a very good technical clincher, and a pretty good counter puncher.
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Old 07-27-2012, 06:32 AM   #25
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Default Re: What do you think about Muhammad Ali's boxing fundamentals?

Ali's fundamentals are generally sound aside from leaning back with his hands down. That's the main error he makes, although few could punish him for it, especially in his prime. Also he'd punch while on his tip toes - which makes you harder to hit but gives up power.

Aside from that his footwork, punches and head movement were technically excellent
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Old 07-27-2012, 07:19 AM   #26
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Default Re: What do you think about Muhammad Ali's boxing fundamentals?

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Ali's fundamentals are generally sound aside from leaning back with his hands down. That's the main error he makes, although few could punish him for it, especially in his prime. Also he'd punch while on his tip toes - which makes you harder to hit but gives up power.
But perhaps more than anyone I've ever seen (especially HWs) he had the ability to get set and plant his feet in the middle of a movement and deliver a hard blow. Like the rights he felled Williams and Mildenberger with.
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Old 07-27-2012, 07:26 AM   #27
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Default Re: What do you think about Muhammad Ali's boxing fundamentals?

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Originally Posted by Bokaj View Post
It's funny how the in-fighting Ali showed in Manilla is overlooked.

That a tall, rangy fighter prefers to hold instead of fighting on the inside isn't the same as that he can't fight inside.

Manilla is actually a very good example of that Ali had some very good fundamentals to fall back on once his speed had declined. The fight against Berbick is another. And Ali wasn't only old and slow in that fight, but also physically ill with Parkinson's syndrome.

Agreed In some ways watching Ali in the Berbick fight hurts almost as much as his beating in the Larry Holmes one,but considering how ill he already was,it was quite remarkable how he could still be competitive against a limited yet strong top contender.
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Old 07-27-2012, 07:44 AM   #28
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Default Re: What do you think about Muhammad Ali's boxing fundamentals?

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Ali's fundamentals weren't very fundamental. He was unorthodox for the most part and defensively he's sort of dismissive of fundamentals at all. And Ali's ring IQ is generally overrated, from my perspective. His nearly inhuman toughness is underrated.
No and no. Everyone who knows just a bit about Ali, know that he was extremely tough. Haven't heard anyone say otherwise, so I can't see how it's undderrated.

And his ring generalship is absolutely not overrated, even though it's very highly rated by most. A superb ring general. One of the best.
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Old 07-27-2012, 10:08 AM   #29
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Default Re: What do you think about Muhammad Ali's boxing fundamentals?

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you would think that, but larrys jab causes him more problems than it solves againt some people ie norton/tyson i know he was passed it for tyson, but when he loads up on the jab it means he is moving towards you if he misses with the jab he is right in front of you with a half guard, loved larry holmes but there are certain things most boxers with a small amount probly 0.0001% all have flaws.
Explain.....Why would I think that?
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Old 07-28-2012, 07:52 AM   #30
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Default Re: What do you think about Muhammad Ali's boxing fundamentals?

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But perhaps more than anyone I've ever seen (especially HWs) he had the ability to get set and plant his feet in the middle of a movement and deliver a hard blow. Like the rights he felled Williams and Mildenberger with.
Yea that's true, especially good at this against slower footed fighters like Liston and Foreman too
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