Muhammad Ali and the controversial fights?

[MrBumboclart]

Originally Posted by tommygun711

Cooper still was cut badly, it wouldn't have mattered either way
Frazier threw low blows as well
Lyle was badly hurt and was on his way out
It was a close fight, no robbery With Norton
I agree with Young but once again it was no robbery

Cooper had Ali. If his cornerman hadn't turned the hole into a rip and gotten extra time who knows what could have happened.

Lyle was ahead on the scorecards and Ali wasn't close to stopping him after landing the first right hand.

Norton and Young were both robberies. Very clear to see.

[tommygun711]

Originally Posted by MrBumboclart

Cooper had Ali. If his cornerman hadn't turned the hole into a rip and gotten extra time who knows what could have happened.

It was hardly any time, seriously watch the film and don't buy into the myths lol. Ali was being cocky as usual but he proved that it was nothing more than a fluke in the rematch.

Lyle was ahead on the scorecards and Ali wasn't close to stopping him after landing the first right hand.

Yeah that was an ugly fight. Ali had him hurt and Lyle wasn't even responding with any punches. Literally he had no offense so the referee did what was right. And he was close to stopping him, since he did stop him. lol

[big moose]

The glove incident versus Cooper was debunked by the BBC "More or Less" programme, which looks at the evidence for statistical claims (usually they examine economic stats). They found that the break was 6 seconds longer as a result of the tear. Given Ali's powers of recovery and Cooper's mediocrity I can't imagine that 6 seconds was a game changer.

[Goyourownway]

I had Ali winning every single round against Doug Jones.I deducted two points away from Doug Jones as a result of the silly cunts who actually think he won more than four rounds.


Opinions are opinions,but I'm right on this and you're not.

[jowcol]

Originally Posted by Goyourownway

I had Ali winning every single round against Doug Jones.I deducted two points away from Doug Jones as a result of the silly cunts who actually think he won more than four rounds.
Opinions are opinions,but I'm right on this and you're not.

OK guys, here's the definitive answer and you'de better listen.
Ali did NOT win every single round against Jones, have you even seen the fight?
I had Ali winning a close one but not THAT close.
The time between the 4th and 5th rounds of Cooper 1 was about 65-67 seconds and if you had shaved 5-7 seconds off of that Cooper still could not have won in any scenerio. Cooper did clock him big time and, had it happened earlier in the round, we might have seen a different result but...he didn't.
Still think he was the greatest HW of all-time simply because we didn't see his prime (summer 67-summer70)
As far as Ali's 'second' career?
I thought he lost the third Norton.
I was scared when the bell rounded after the Jimmy Young scrap.
But we have to consider the old adage that sez a challenger has to TAKE THE FIGHT to the champion to get the nod, something my hero Jimmy Young did NOT do.
In retrospect, I thought Norton did barely enough in the third one.
Lyle is a strange creature!? But he did appear defenseless on the ropes in the 11th, wouldn't everyone agree?
On the down side Ali, quite basically, ruined the young Foreman's career with all the crap leading up to their scrap. Why not have the bout in Houston without the whole African nation of Zaire blowing off George? (IMO he might as well have been a white Champ defending his title)
Never gave George a rematch (maybe for good reason)
Just trying to play both sides of the coin here. (something our current politicians wouldn't think of doing)

[luke]

Originally Posted by Stevie G

In my book Muhammad only received two questionable victories in his career. The Jimmy Young and third Ken Norton fights. As the earlier poster said,the one with Young was a poor fight with neither man landing many meaningful punches. A draw would have been quite fair. I give Norton the third fight by 9-6 in rounds. However,many of those rounds were close ones.


Neither fight was a robbery.

this is a good answer.

[luke]

Originally Posted by frankenfrank

D faces of many of his opponents after their fights ?
Cooper #1&#2 , Frazier #3 , Quarry #1&#2 and others like Billy Daniels and more .

A man who cuts & swells so many so often is n automatic suspect .

Remember Charles' face after Rocco #1 ?
Billy Collins Jr.'s face after Resto ?
Cotto's face after Margarito ?


In Ali's case it happened more often than with any1 else .
Regarding his glove in Cooper #1 however u choose 2 treat it screams crime :
1) it was torn pre fight and a orn glove is much more effective at cutting
2) it was loaded and d foreign substance inserted in2 needed a tear in 1st place
3) d foreign substance was inserted , but d tear was fixed but it was not like new anymore , and prone 2 tear again
4) it was torn between rds in order 2 help Ali cut Cooper and this way it passed d referee's inspection of pre fight .
5) it was torn between rds in order 2 buy Ali recuperation time and this way it passed d referee's inspection of pre fight .


*) some combination of d above

if it was loaded in the cooper fight why would he tear it twice like you said? this would help alert the authorities to the illegaly loading of the gloves?

[Robbi]

MrBumboclart and Frankenfrank are clearly having a laugh and trying to goad people. They aren't being serious with their views.

[tommygun711]

Originally Posted by Goyourownway

I had Ali winning every single round against Doug Jones.I deducted two points away from Doug Jones as a result of the silly cunts who actually think he won more than four rounds.


Opinions are opinions,but I'm right on this and you're not.

[Robbi]

Originally Posted by tommygun711

He's been on the disco juice.

[frankenfrank]

Originally Posted by luke

if it was loaded in the cooper fight why would he tear it twice like you said? this would help alert the authorities to the illegaly loading of the gloves?

in this scenario u chose 2 question
once he tore it in order 2 insert d substance in2 d glove and d 2nd time d glove got torn "by itself" , unintentionally , as a result of something inside it tearing it from within (and Cooper's head from outside) .

I hope it is clear now .

I m not completely sure at either scenario but i gave d possibilities and at least 1 of them did happen .

And Doug Jones won a 6-4 due 2 a technical KD in d 1st rd which made it a 10-8 in his favor .

[Legend X]

Originally Posted by big moose

The glove incident versus Cooper was debunked by the BBC "More or Less" programme, which looks at the evidence for statistical claims (usually they examine economic stats). They found that the break was 6 seconds longer as a result of the tear. Given Ali's powers of recovery and Cooper's mediocrity I can't imagine that 6 seconds was a game changer.

Surely with Ali's power of recovery 6 extra seconds would be significant.

[RockysSplitNose]

The stoppage against Lyle was a complete joke I'll give you that - plus one of the major ones for me was THE EARNIE SHAVERS FIGHT - I gave that one to Shavers by quite a wide margin and Norton III I have to Norton but not by as wide a margin as the Shavers one - can't remember specifics but think I had Shavers winning like 75% of the rounds - the Young fight I had close but again Young stealing it - both Liston fights stunk to high heaven but there was nothing wrong in the Cooper fight just bad luck for Coops and the Doug Jones thing - close but still had Clay winning by a coupla rounds from what I remember - but yeah he did seem to be involved in a lot of things that were indecisive enough to be questionable

[Legend X]

yeah, I think the merits of the decision of the Shavers fight gets less attention that it should - relative to the other talked about "robberies".

I think Shavers deserved the win at least as much as Young did in 1976.
The thing is, NO ONE thought Shavers was capable of outpointing Ali - even Shavers himself - so a lot of those close rounds were probably viewed as Shavers' failing to deliver the KO, and Ali nicked a lot of rounds on psychology alone.

[frankenfrank]

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