Should Liston's & Holyfield's rankings be affected by their mafia/steroid affaires?

[Lord Tywin]

Originally Posted by Webbiano

If he did take roids, would it have really been that much different if he hadn't? Maybe the odd loss here and there unless he genuinely was on PED's from the start of his career.

It always blows my mind how some deluded fans can honestly believe that PEDs dont impact performance.

I guess thats why the pros spend so much money on them, and so much effort on not getting caught... because they dont effect performance...

I guess its a coincidence that since major league baseball has half assed begun cracking down on PEDs the game has suddenly and dramatically shifted from a hitters game to a pitchers game.

I guess all of the good batters either retired, got old, or... stopped taking PEDs.

Keep on dreaming if you think PEDs have no effect on the user.

[BillB]

Originally Posted by Asterion

Innocent until proven guilty?

Should Sonny Liston's mafia connections affect his heavyweight ranking? Is there any prove that some of his fights were fixed?

Should Holyfield's "Evan Fields" incident with steroids affect his ranking?

Which rankings?
If you're talking about how they are rated on this forum or by sportswriters, what difference does it make? It's all opinion and departure points for conversation. It means nothing.

[Legend X]

Originally Posted by Lord Tywin

In boxing you run several miles a day, box several rounds a day, jump rope, shadow box, bag work etc. Its extremely intensive cardio wise. Ask any bodybuilder how hard it is to put on significant weight with just a little cardio much less hours a day of it. Yet somehow a guy who was no longer growing is able to add twenty five pounds of solid, fat free, ripped muscle in less than two years between Qawi and Stewart while working hours each day at cardio. Mama didnt raise no dummies I know when I see something like that its not natural.

It's a bit of a myth that you can't put on muscle while doing a lot of cardio.
If you sleep enough and eat enough and lift heavy weights you will grow.
Doing a lot of cardio won't stop the natural hormonal reactions that produce mass growth. If something's going to give through 'over-training', it will be the ability to do the cardio rather than the ability to grow off of doing heavy weights and eating well.

Bodybuilders don't need or want to do a load of running or whatever, that's how they built the phobia of cardio.


Having said that, I think Evander Holyfield used steroids or similar drugs.
But I also think Lennox Lewis, Ray Mercer, Wladimir Klitschko etc. have done so too.

[Lord Tywin]

Originally Posted by Legend X

It's a bit of a myth that you can't put on muscle while doing a lot of cardio.
If you sleep enough and eat enough and lift heavy weights you will grow.
Doing a lot of cardio won't stop the natural hormonal reactions that produce mass growth. If something's going to give through 'over-training', it will be the ability to do the cardio rather than the ability to grow off of doing heavy weights and eating well.

I disagree completely in regards to boxing. Can you add SOME muscle while boxing. Yes.

But to add as much as 25 pounds of solid lean muscle? Nope.

If you believe that to be true, and can actually do it without steroids then you need your own forum for that because there are a lot of so called experts you would put out of business with your miracle plan.

Id bet cold hard, cash money, that anyone who is a natural bodybuilder, past the age of 25 or so, can implement a boxing regimine, a real boxing regimine not an hour a day, to their normal workout and they would see their weight and size decrease.

Ive seen it way to often to believe anything different.

[Rock0052]

Originally Posted by Lord Tywin

I disagree completely in regards to boxing. Can you add SOME muscle while boxing. Yes.

But to add as much as 25 pounds of solid lean muscle? Nope.

If you believe that to be true, and can actually do it without steroids then you need your own forum for that because there are a lot of so called experts you would put out of business with your miracle plan.

Id bet cold hard, cash money, that anyone who is a natural bodybuilder, past the age of 25 or so, can implement a boxing regimine, a real boxing regimine not an hour a day, to their normal workout and they would see their weight and size decrease.

Ive seen it way to often to believe anything different.

Agreed 100%. You do a ton of cardio, and your body will burn excess muscle along with fat for the energy it needs. That's what makes it tough for guys to keep on more lean muscle and move up once they're in their natural weight class. No way an older fighter can put on that kind of weight and have it be all muscle without a little "help".