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Old 03-04-2008, 05:33 AM   #31
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Default Re: Ali and Cus D`amato argue about Louis

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Originally Posted by RockyJim
Calling Joe an Uncle Tom was uncalled for......
He got called worse things than that in his time.
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Old 03-04-2008, 07:08 AM   #32
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Default Re: Ali and Cus D`amato argue about Louis

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Originally Posted by Longhhorn71
My dad saw Louis in the Army Air Force during WW 2 doing exhibitions.
He said kinda what Cus was talking about ,that although "shuffling", Joe would sometime in the fight get the chance to launch his extremely fast, crushing combinations on Ali.

Of course me, the hippies and the rest of the anti-war establishment thought Ali was untouchable at that point.

Probably go like Conn-Louis I,.. Ali can dance his way to a decision, but if he decides to trade late with Louis, well, Louis in his prime can knock anyone out.
My father meet Louis and Liston in Vegas on separate occasions. He said Louis was dim witted and, and Liston was even duller.

The personalities of the two could have not been more different. Louis was a great American happy to meet and greet. Liston was a scary looking dude. Perhaps my father meet Liston on a bad day, but he said it took some courage just to shake hands with Liston.

One wore the white hat, the other the black.
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Old 03-04-2008, 08:06 AM   #33
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Default Re: Ali and Cus D`amato argue about Louis

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Originally Posted by janitor
The best boxers Louis fought to my mind are:

Bob Pastor
Max Schmeling
John Henry Lewis
Billy Conn
Jersey Joe Walcott

Against Pastor he strugled in the first fight but posted a textbook destruction of a mover in the rematch.

You know the deal with the Schmeling Conn and Walcott fights. He had problems but caught up with them in the end.

The John Henry Lewis and second Schmeling fights dont not tell us much because Louis jumped them early. Wins for sure but they dont say a lot about how he would have done over the long haul.

It is a shame in a way that a prime Louis never fought Walcott because that could have told us a lot about a possible Louis Ali bout.
He didnt struggle with Paster in the first fight, Paster spend the entire ten rounds, RUNNING AWAY.
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Old 03-04-2008, 08:22 AM   #34
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Default Re: Ali and Cus D`amato argue about Louis

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He didnt struggle with Paster in the first fight, Paster spend the entire ten rounds, RUNNING AWAY.
But he did manage to last the distance.
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Old 03-04-2008, 11:59 AM   #35
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Default Re: Ali and Cus D`amato argue about Louis

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Originally Posted by Maurice
Yeah you could say that, but from the fights i have seen of louis i do not think there is anything he can do to beat A prime ali.
I agree with you. I think Joe Louis would have a heck of a time trying to catch and corner Muhammad Ali. As Ali slowed down in his later years, he was much easier to hit cleanly. But the prime 60's Ali was a very special fighter. So was Joe Louis, but I think Muhammad Ali just had too much speed, agility, and boxing skill to lose to Joe Louis.
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:06 PM   #36
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Default Re: Ali and Cus D`amato argue about Louis

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Originally Posted by janitor
He got called worse things than that in his time.
Like "junkie" and "wife beater"!
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:31 PM   #37
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Default Re: Ali and Cus D`amato argue about Louis

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Like "junkie" and "wife beater"!
Well I dont think anybody ever called him a troll.
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:51 PM   #38
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Default Re: Ali and Cus D`amato argue about Louis

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Originally Posted by janitor
You might well be right.

Puchers always seem to rate other punchers while slicksters tend to rate other slicksters. Note Louis's early championing of Liston and Foreman compared to his conservative asesment of Ali. Note also that Joe Walcott was one of the first experts to start talking about Ali as a possible great. Walcott either liked the style due to its similarities to his or saw its potential for the same reason.
Well, Archie Moore picked Ali to beat Louis 4 times out of 5, and Moore's style was probably more like Louis' than Ali's. It would be fair to say Moore was a puncher in his own division I suppose. He definitely was a KO-artist.
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Old 03-04-2008, 01:09 PM   #39
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Default Re: Ali and Cus D`amato argue about Louis

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Originally Posted by Bokaj
Well, Archie Moore picked Ali to beat Louis 4 times out of 5, and Moore's style was probably more like Louis' than Ali's. It would be fair to say Moore was a puncher in his own division I suppose. He definitely was a KO-artist.
Yes but he was a defensive fighter while Louis was an ofensive fighter. In that respect he might have seen more in common with Ali than with Louis.

Whatever the case you will find that punchers would typicaly pick Louis e.g. Frazier, Foreman, while slicksters would generaly pick Ali e.g. Walcott.
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Old 03-04-2008, 01:41 PM   #40
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Default Re: Ali and Cus D`amato argue about Louis

Yeah, I agree. That seems to be the case.
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Old 03-04-2008, 02:35 PM   #41
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Default Re: Ali and Cus D`amato argue about Louis

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Originally Posted by Maurice
Did Joe Louis suffer from any mental illnes in his late career? i heard somewhere that he bacame paranoid that people were after to kill him. His son even sent him to a retirement home because of this.
This is corect. He started searching cavities in the walls because he was afraid he would be gased. He thought a Texan wanted to shoot him. His son had to sign the commital papers.
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Old 03-04-2008, 04:40 PM   #42
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Default Re: Ali and Cus D`amato argue about Louis

I actually agree with Ali here. That's not to say that Louis wouldn't have a chance, because of course he would have -- I just lean much more in the direction of an Ali UD. I can't imagine Louis coping with a prime Ali's movement and speed.
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Old 03-04-2008, 06:00 PM   #43
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Default Re: Ali and Cus D`amato argue about Louis

You might notice that Louis like Ali always did better in the return bouts which means he was able to work out a fighters style and produce a fight plan to defeat that fighter, in this respect he was better than Ali who with Norton and Frazier always had a fight which could go either way, mind you Ali did of course win which is the sign of a great champion.
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Old 03-04-2008, 06:02 PM   #44
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Default Re: Ali and Cus D`amato argue about Louis

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Originally Posted by punchy
You might notice that Louis like Ali always did better in the return bouts which means he was able to work out a fighters style and produce a fight plan to defeat that fighter, in this respect he was better than Ali who with Norton and Frazier always had a fight which could go either way, mind you Ali did of course win which is the sign of a great champion.
Louis is a far better example of getting the better of a fighter the second time round'. He did it far more convincingly than Ali.
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Old 03-04-2008, 06:08 PM   #45
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Default Re: Ali and Cus D`amato argue about Louis

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Originally Posted by Russell
Louis is a far better example of getting the better of a fighter the second time round'. He did it far more convincingly than Ali.
Exactly, it raises the question would Louis win a three fight series with Ali.
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